|
|
This week's Artistic Parenting conversation is our last one for the season. My chat today is with 2 time Helen Hayes Award winning actor and mama of two munchkins, Erika Rose. We know each other from college at the University of Maryland College Park and it was such a pleasure to sit down and talk about where we are in our lives now. Today we talk about arts ability to heal, creating a container for creativity, being a doula kind of spirit, and we get a story of a magical moment with each of her kids that is forever imprinted on her heart.
Today's Raise a Glass lyrics: "Pride is not the word I'm looking for, there is so much more inside me now." ~ from Dear Theodosia in Hamilton
Follow MFA on instagram @mfaparentingedition
Leave a review on Podchaser
Support the show (https://www.buymeacoffee.com/mfaparenting)
________________________
Full Transcript:
MFA: The Parenting Edition, Episode 36
Erika: [00:00:00] When I have enjoyed theater, the most it's because it's being led by somebody who has this open container who knows, all they have to do is facilitate, be a doula and it will be greater than anything they could have imagined.
Taisha: [00:00:18] Welcome to MFA the Parenting Edition. I'm Taisha Cameron. These lessons from the theater for raising ourselves and our kids came about when I realized my MFA in acting trained me for life as a mommy, better than life as a full-time actor. In today's episode, we'll be talking with actor and mama of two little ones, Erika Rose. We'll explore some challenging questions and kick things off with a toast to parenthood with the Raise a Glass series. So without further ado, this is MFA.
Episode 36. Your Art Can Hold It.
The Raise a Glass series is a space for reflection and gratitude centered around the topic of the day and inspired by lyrics from Hamilton, the musical.
Pride is not the word I'm looking for. There's so much more inside me now.
All the feels, right? Our kids bring out feelings in us that we've had difficulty experiencing and expressing. They force us, ready or not, to become okay with our big emotions so we can help them with theirs. Sometimes we sense these big feelings come up and dig our feet into not changing. Sometimes we recognize the truth and how we have to evolve ourselves and we clinked desperately to wanting to control and not lose what we know of ourselves to be true so far. But if we allow ourselves to be rocked to the core by these new beings in the world, we've chosen to be a guide for, we'll learn things about ourselves we never knew existed. There is more inside us then we can imagine. And sometimes it takes us going on an epic adventure. To discover what we're made of.
Let's raise a glass to the epic adventure of being a parent and the pride and so much more it opens inside us.
What’s going on? And I said, Hey, yay. Yay. Yeah. I said, Hey. What's going on?
What's going on lovelies? Hello, hello, hello my lovely listeners. Thank you for tuning in for another episode of MFA the Parenting Edition. Man. I am going to take a break from this for a little while I am. I have been burnt out. I just got back from a vacation with my family up north and I realized that to give you the best of me and what I have to share with you that I want to help you, I need to take a break. So next week will be the last episode for season two. And then I'll go on a little break. And then later this summer I'll come back with season three. I've got a Ka billion ideas on what I want to do. So, I want to take the time to refresh recharge, get it all set and give you all, the best that I can.
Now. We have another great conversation. But before we start, I just wanted to check in about something. So, like I said, I was on vacation recently with my family and what I've been noticing being around my family and doing the parent thing is that I become very hyper aware of how my parenting style and choices and my daughter's behavior impact or may impact other people. Does that happen to anybody else? I'm pretty sure that's a universal feeling, right?
I always thought that I was going to be the parent, that my siblings would say, I'm going to send your ass to Titi Tai’s for the week, cause she's going to get you in line. I was preparing myself for this role. To be the strict parent, no child was going to pull any shit on me.
And then I became a mom. And I realized how all of those things that I was feeling and thinking just don't sit right with me anymore and don't work with her. And it's not that I haven't tried to be a little bit more aggressive. They just, they don't work in the way that either they worked with me, or I thought that they would.
We've tried giving Angelica more space to be a kid without so much micromanaging of her behavior and choices. It's still difficult. Chaotic. She pushes, she's defiant and it's tiring. But it feels more like we're connecting with another human and not training an animal to conform to human ways of being obedient. We've been looking at ways to connect, inspire, be creative and grow together as a family. And that's what my conversation revolves around today with Erika. Healing and evolving. So let's get on with the show.
Be our guest.
On the show today, I'll be sharing parts of my conversation with actor and mama of two munchkins, the lovely Erika Rose.
Erika is a three-time nominated, two-time Helen Hayes award winning actor for her work in Queens Girl in Africa and In Darfur. I know Erica from college at the University of Maryland College Park, go Terps! She was in all the shows and the theater department, one of the improv comedy troupes, and you knew watching her, she was a powerhouse. On her website she affirms, I want to work with people who, like me, are working on their capacity to truly listen, be accountable and honest. Make amends forgive and restore.
What the world would look like if we all made that affirmation. And now. On to our chat.
Choosing motherhood. Question. When did you know you wanted to be a mom?
Erika: [00:07:01] I don't think it was ever a calling for me until I met Patrick. And well, okay. So part of it was as a young 20 something not having been in a relationship. I mean, I couldn't think about having a child outside of a foundational kind of safe, loving relationship.
There are lots of people who could imagine having children just that that's their calling. That was not me because I was just like, I can't even get my, my stuff together, you know, just on my own. So, what am I, what am I, how would, I couldn't picture myself with anybody? Like, you know, I had like, like relationships that had lasted for three months, and I was like, this kids are alive for a lot longer than three months, so figure something else out.
But you know, when I met Patrick like seven years into our relationship, well, right away, I thought like, yeah, this is, well, now I can see it. I can see how wonderful a father he would be. And if there's anybody that I've met so far, or that I could possibly meet, who would be a loving father, who I could trust, no matter what, like, no matter what happened to either of us, that he would be an amazing father.
So that is when I actually started to consider it. And then like seven years after we'd been together, we decided to go on an adventure together.
I don't know. If, if I thought about what kind of mother I was going to be, I mean, I think for a lot of my, a lot of my life, a lot of the experiences I've had, it's been about an adventure, an experience that I want to have on this planet before I go. And that's good to be kind of selfish maybe, but it's also like everything we had to get to all these choices.
You can make all these choices. What colors do you want to have in your life? What colors do you want to paint with that color and what that experience with you? You know, I want that experience with Patrick. Let's do this together. I don't know what's going to be like, I don't know who I'm going to be. Mom, no clue. So, I just said, we just said yes, and, you know, wide eyed and excited and terrified at each step even now.
Taisha: [00:09:32] And who do you feel you've turned into or become, or are growing into as a mom?
Erika: [00:09:39] Huh? Okay. So, I've only been a mother for six and a half years. Two children. Six-and-a-half-year-old and a four-year-old. So, I feel like I'm, I'm young yet. I feel I'm as young as my children, his mother. So I feel like for the first time, in the last two years that I've been able to understand that whoever I want to be as a parent, it has to do with who I want to be as a human being, just period, that whatever, however, I'm going to show up for them in their lives. However, I'm going to help them become who they're meant to be. Whatever that, whoever that person is like, I can't just, I can't just sort of do it as this like sidebar. I'm just going to get these motherhood skills, which are so helpful. I went to this parenting, coach me a Patrick super helpful crisis we were having. But but there are things that I have wanted to look at, or haven't, haven't wanted to look at
Taisha: [00:10:48] That's it right there. Right? What have we been avoiding?
Erika: [00:10:52] Yeah, yeah, yeah. And that I can't avoid now that they're here because th you know, I, I'm not as patient, as I thought I would be. I say all of this with a growing sense of grace and gentleness for myself as a human being. But, but also I'm not as patient as I thought it would be. I thought that I would be a parent who my kids would feel comfortable talking to about everything and they do feel comfortable talking to me about a lot of things, but it's hard. To feel super comfortable and safe with somebody who's also like, you know, kind of an authoritarian, like that's the word I'm giving it.
So like having a democratic kind of household where they are able to be fully seen and heard and know that their feelings matter and that mistakes are just like opportunities, mistakes are, are not failures. That’s great. You're able to learn you learn from that. They can build and bond and not get caught in the morass. You know?
You asked me like, what kind of parent did I, have I discovered myself to be, and I can't answer it because I'm still discovering it.
Taisha: [00:12:18] When you brought up authoritarian, do you feel like that is part of your own upbringing that is just like melting over?
Erika: [00:12:29] Totally. Yeah, absolutely.
And it's so it's so interesting. I don't know if this is like a pattern for everybody, but you know, if you choose to parent with someone, whether you choose somebody who's like this other side of yourself or something that you would like to make sure is in your children's lives. But anyway, my husband is not an authoritarian he's he said he was permissive permissive.
But he's like, he, he, he is such a beautiful communicator and I can do that on stage and super perceptive and curious. But there's something about my upbringing and I couldn't tell you like every experience I had, but because I'm experiencing myself right now as a parent, well then there must have been something I saw a model.
So, you know, like, just get over it, you know that was like, you get what you get and you don't get upset, you know, we're supposed to be really polite, polite, wonderful, but like to a fault, like in a way that you might not let someone know how you actually feel about pain know. Suck it up, deal with it. It's because I said so, that's what you get if something's gone wrong. And especially if they told you not to do it, and if there's a consequence, that's what you get, you know? Mistakes were heartfelt, super heartfelt. Yeah. And, and, you know, like being seen and not heard and being quiet. And so, there are things about that that I didn't enjoy, but then also there was a part of me that was like, ah, come on, I turned out fine. I'm great. I'm all right. Like, what's wrong with that? I was like, well, but, but even when I'm trying to sort of like recreate some of the things that my parents did, cause I don't have any other tools and I see that it doesn't quite fit right. In my own skin, in my body. And also like, it doesn't quite fit right with my husband's style of parenting. And it also just a fit right on my kids. It's like, well, whatever I thought about how right it was, or just like fine, it was for me, that doesn't fit here. I'm a different person. My children are different. My husband is different. I need some new tools. So, so Yeah,
Taisha: [00:14:57] that just got, I got very emotional listening to you say that because it, it rings so true.
There's so many things that I look at in my, the way I was parented. And I, I definitely thought I was looking at things very objectively and you know, my parents were great with this, but not great with that. And, and there was stuff that I was like, I'm doing this, this is the type of parent, mom I know I'm going to be, I'm going to be like this and this and this that says, and there are things that just don't feel right. They don't fit with who I'm becoming with the mom that I, that my daughter is showing me that she needs.
Erika: [00:15:37] Yeah.
Taisha: [00:15:38] And there's, there's that sense of, okay, now I've recognized, I've seen that this is not working.
Erika: [00:15:45] Right.
Taisha: [00:15:46] And with that question of, you know, well, I turned out okay then does she know that she'd be fine. Okay. First of all, is w is that what we're all aspiring to, to just like be okay. And like, kind of get through life and then is the facing like, am I really okay?
Erika: [00:16:04] Yes. Right. What did you say? You turned out fine. You're okay. When you just said a couple of sentences ago, what did you just say? You were like, who, who your daughter is showing you she needs.
Taisha: [00:16:20] Yeah
Erika: [00:16:21] That really, that really struck me. That, I feel like I feel like I've been catching up in a way to parenting and what it requires of me and that you can, you can do all levels of parenting, you know, like all levels. Until, until your job is sort of quote, unquote done. They're like you can make any choice. But I, I want to like to be present enough in your relationship with your child to actually hear and feel like to discern what they need and whether or not you are at that moment equipped to give it to them. And if you're not equipped, like to get curious about that, so that, that is where I am at this moment.
There are ways that I have been that are just ways that I've been, because I haven't been examining it because life, because I'm in shows because there are tasks because the kids need to eat and we need to work and the laundry needs to get done and blah, blah, blah, blah there's there's. So. Like introspection, the intentionality and parenting, and also like discovery of self, it takes time. It takes time and, and I just wasn't giving it time. And so like, even just the presence of mind to be checking in with your child about what they're saying to you, what they need. So it's like, okay, maybe I'm not yet at a place where I can give them what they need, but like, oh, wow. Oh look, I heard it. Okay. You know, that's big because before I wasn't listening,
Taisha: [00:18:11] Lessons from the theater. Question. What lessons from the theater help you through motherhood?
Erika: [00:18:22] I'll say play and curiosity and exploration and being comfortable with not knowing following the thread, following their thread, what are they interested in? What did they think? There's gold there in their creativity. So I'd say theater has helped me find or, or create a kind of like open container for their creativity.
Like a place for them to put it. It's given me tools to share with them so they can explore their own creativity. Something I've been recognizing in myself, even just with their creativity that it makes me think about the teaching too. Like really great teachers are teaching a skill, but don't tell you how to do it. Montessori education in particular, but Montessori teachers remind me of like facilitators or guides,
Taisha: [00:19:22] Right.
Erika: [00:19:22] They're teaching skills, but they're, their job seems to be, to empower you to believe in, to step into and to like to harness your own creativity to, to have the competence of your own creativity for other people to answer your questions, and you're curious about your own thoughts that, that, whatever you're curious about, follow that, and that is exactly what you should be doing.
So, so I say all that to say, I noticed I'm not good at it. Yeah.
But I feel like it's magic when I've seen teachers do that. Not just teachers, but directors and creatives, when I've seen people sort of be doulas or midwives, or, you know, facilitators for creativity who don't, who believe that you actually know more than they do, because you do know more than me about your own creativity.
How could I dare say what you should be doing or how you should finish off that painting or create that invention that you just dreamed up, you know, I could get any materials, but also these are the only materials I can think of. There are like 500 more. So, so I think theater, you know, the, the exploration, when I have enjoyed theater, the most it's because it's, it's being a play or an experience is being led by somebody who has this open container who knows, but also knows that there are, five people in the room who have like the world inside them. And like, all they have to do is facilitate, be a doula and it will be greater than anything they could have imagined, you know? So like that, and that way I think theater has encouraged me to try to learn how to use my skills in a gentle, a gentle way, you know? Like a doula, this baby's coming, so what's the experience going to be like, you know, how empowered is the parents going to feel as this baby comes? You know, how safe are they going to feel? That's my only job. And I feel like theater has helped me understand that, the ways in which I feel like I'm trying to birth this baby on stage here. And you're telling me that's not the way to birth it. You want me to do what? Sit on what don't tell me how to birth this baby. Tell me not, no, you don't know. You don't know
Taisha: [00:21:54] An inspiring journey. Question. What is one of the most satisfying or gratifying experiences you've had in the theater?
Erika: [00:22:08] Two things come to mind and you remember this director named Carrie Upton.
Taisha: [00:22:14] Yeah.
Erika: [00:22:15] Okay. Okay. So we did Private Eyes and it was about this married couple. There was infidelity. We didn't know about that. We didn't have 19 year olds talking about infidelity marriage. But he started rehearsal reading this book called I think it was Free Play.
Taisha: [00:22:33] Yeah. I remember that, but yeah, I don't know if it was from his class to that or him, but I have that book from Maryland because some teacher at some point brought it up.
Erika: [00:22:45] Yeah. See now I bring this up and it's like, cause I have this feeling, but now like the details are kind of fuzzy.
Taisha: [00:22:50] Go with the feeling.
Erika: [00:22:51] Go with the feeling? Okay. He read this passage, this passage from, from the book and it was talking about jazz and improvisation like the magic of it and how each piece each instrument was like, you know, do I anyway, see see see?
I don't have no , but he just like created this container this container of excitement and possibility. And he was inviting us to play. He was inviting us not to know, he was inviting us to be in that space of fear of, I feel like I am afraid when I feel like I'm supposed to know. When I feel like everybody around me is pretending like they also know yeah. As parents, you know, as,
Taisha: [00:23:43] Oh my God.
Erika: [00:23:45] Right? Scrap the first read because we're all trying to act like we're supposed to have gotten the job.
Like, let's get to know one another what's happening with us, you know? But so like there was some kind of like artifice that was taken away from the process or, or not artifice. It was like this block. I thought theater is supposed to be this one way. I'm supposed to come into the room, having done all this work. I've prepared I've studied all the methods and you know, I'm doing the score the way my teachers, I am my objective and my blah, blah, blah.
Taisha: [00:24:25] I got all my beats marked here.
Erika: [00:24:28] Right. It's like all that's useful and you don't know. And that is where the beauty is. And can we all just stop pretending like we know and then like, what's going to happen. Well, then I'm not like protecting myself and defending myself. So anyway, that experience that I didn't really give you any details about was awesome.
He also said, I'll never forget this. Cause we'd gossiped all the time about what was happening and shows like you knew all the ti than any show that was happening. He was like, I invite you to not talk about this show, to not gossip and send your energy, like your negative energy, like out that way to create a narrative or a story about our show that has nothing to do with what we're creating here. I invite you to bring everything you are and everything you have. I invite you to like, bring it back into the room to feed and fuel our process. Like if you have a problem, bring it here. If you have a concern or curiosity or whatever, bring it here. Like this is a safe place. It's the container. And like, it was the most beautiful experience I've ever had. And he definitely felt like a doula kind of spirit. You know, it might've been like one other show I've done in my career that I felt that way too, with a director named Derrick Goldman, who works at the Lab of Global Performance. I can't remember the name, but at Georgetown an amazing director who's also like a doula kind of spirit for me.
Taisha: [00:25:57] There was something I just had connected to what you just finished talking about with Carrie. Oh, in that, creating that container, that safe space. Do you, cause what it made me think of is in the, like the not gossiping and not sending out, negative things that might, like circle or cycle itself, back through. In parenting have you found that in trying to find a lot more tools and having a lot more people's experiences and thoughts and ideas in your head has been more helpful or harmful to you connecting to what's true and creating a safe space to grow for your family?
Erika: [00:26:43] Yeah. Oh, oh, that's a good question. Let's see. I judged myself quite a lot. And it, it kind of doesn't matter. I'm a little bit better now, but it's like, especially in the beginning, it didn't matter what anybody was saying about my parenting or even about their own child. I would take it personally. It's like, are you saying that about how you parent your child because you're trying to tell me something about how I parent my child, you know, oh God, just the really, it's hard enough with your own brain.
Taisha: [00:27:16] I laughed out of connection of knowing that I've done that. I've had those moments or I've created that narrative in my head where what they might be sharing could be. It has nothing to do with me. It might, I don't know, but it doesn't have to, I don't have to interpret it that way. I don't have to make it personal.
Erika: [00:27:42] Right.
Taisha: [00:27:43] Unless they're literally coming out and being like, you're a terrible parent. You should never have children again. You're doing an horrendous job then. Yeah. Probably going to take that personally. But outside of that, it's not my stuff to carry yet I know I've had the same reaction.
Erika: [00:28:01] Yeah, oy. Yeah. That, that one is, is tough. Yeah. It's not mine to carrying. The creating the narrative. There's so much that. Yeah. I just like all of a sudden, it makes me think about how, just how powerful we are as human beings that we can create that like everything is creation.
That you can use your powers of creation from good, right. Create a narrative in your brain about how you're doing your best Erica. And you know, you you're in your mother and your father did their best with the tools that they had in the time that they were born in the family that they were born into. And you were also doing your best. And we're also trying to grow and that's all you can do.
So we just went to this parenting coach for like three months. See her again, at some point we kind of got through the roughest patch, like the thing we were most concerned about. And I was like, you know, some negative behavior. And it was really helpful for me to talk to some other parents about the difficulties we were having, because I was kind of embarrassed about it. But then, you know, when I, allowed myself, to be honest about what was happening, that I didn't know what to do.
The other parents two other parents in particular started telling me they're really tough stories. And you know, one of them was in the middle of it. He didn't have any advice that worked for them. And the other one, you know, had some great advice. So I do. I mean, I'm like, I'm absorbing. Sometimes I take it personally better now than I was before, but I I'm absorbing everything.
And it it's, it's tricky because, you know, when you were saying earlier, like your child telling you what she needs, you know, my child telling you what she needs and my son telling you what he needs, they're individuals, they are super unique. There are things about our psychology that are similar. You know, that's what a therapist can go to school and learn this particular method, because there's like a similar way, our brains work and stuff that like kids are different.
So I've also, I think, begun to learn that if a parent, my mother, my mother-in-law, my father-in-law friends, aunties, uncles, other parents tell me what I should do or what they did that it's like grain of salt because they're not, not in my life. They're not me. I would have to interpret whatever they're telling me through my own, you know, cultural lens and like where I am emotionally and all of that. Plus my kid is different. So, you know I I'm reading online all the time. I'm talking to people about what's happening and the parenting coach was super, super helpful. So I, I, I do let, let other people influence me. And a particular mom. I won't say her name, but she said who's like just one of the most creative people I know. I just admire her so much and I don't know if I've ever told her that I will, but I just kind of observe. And and I've started to incorporate some things she's doing. I should probably tell her.
Taisha: [00:31:12] Yeah, yeah.
Erika: [00:31:15] Ask her questions and let's say she's a beautiful mom and she's doing a great job. I guess we should tell each other that more often.
Taisha: [00:31:23] We should, we definitely should.
Mirror mirror on the wall. Question. What have your children mirrored back to you that you wish you hadn't taught or passed on to them? course correct. My daughter is a little mommy to my son, you know, she's got whatever I say. I can hear her repeating it to him upstairs or like somewhere else. But he, he did something and I don't know, there was some kind of correction that I gave. And then right afterwards, she was like, well, you know, if you hadn't done this, then that wouldn't have happened.
Erika: [00:32:08] And I was like, that is me.
Like, hold on. Wait, wait, wait. Like he already took responsibility for it. No need to rub it in. Why are you in an I told you so space? Oh, because I am. Why, why was that about, what is that? Why do I do that? Do I need to do that? I just said, you know, mistakes are learning opportunities. So, what place does I told you so has learning opportunities.
So it was like how do you actually the things I, I that I believe I value operationalize those things with like words and language. Give me three phrases that I can say, you know, anyway, that moment I was like, oh man. Okay. So I'm hard on them. I'm hard on myself. Oh, I'm hard on myself. Oh, I want to get it right.
Don't like making mistakes. You know, all the things I say, the woo woo things I say, I still don't want to make mistakes. I still beat myself up about the mistakes I make. And I'll be thinking about something that happened five years ago. It's like, it's done, you know, let it go.
Taisha: [00:33:24] Yes,
Erika: [00:33:26] Let me get on my journey to letting those things go and saying to myself, you're doing your best. Let me create this healing metaphor for myself and walk down that path. So I can like maybe share that with my kids as a tool for themselves and their own lives. Add some more tools to my own toolbox so they can have more for themselves.
Taisha: [00:33:46] Are you just as hard on yourself in acting?
Erika: [00:33:50] Very hard on, hard on myself in the theater. Yeah. I think I've, I've gone in phases or waves or something, but I wasn't always this way. It wasn't so acute, but the kind of, creative demon that says like, that was really dumb or, you're not supposed to be here or, you know, all, all of the things you you've done how many shows and you don't really know what this moment is about that actor does. This actors, like, why are you cast opposite me?
No. And I said this thing, all, all that stuff, all that stuff. The director just ask me to do this thing and I can't quite make it happen. And I know they're disappointed and disappointed Lord, all the stuff that is in the way. All that stuff is in a way. So yeah, I am, I am, which is why it's most helpful for me to work with artists that are giving and kind and because I can be kind and giving to other people. It's hard for me to do it for myself, but like being with people who are like doula spirits is the only way that I can like flush those kind of creative demons out, you know, they're not going to go away, but they can, they can like be there, but in their proper place, you know what I mean? Like I'm never going to get them to go away, but sometimes they override everything. They are in the way of the flow and the creativity. So but being in a room with people who understand that it's sacred, even if it's like sacred play, it's the fricking comedy, I need to be in a room with people who are not going to add to that negative voice in my head. And if they do add to it I need them to know that they added to it to address that. To be self aware enough, to be like, Hey, I'm going through something right now. I just talked to you in this way and that's not okay.
I want to be better. I'm frustrated by this thing. I feel like this because I don't know how to help you. And so I came out of my neck sideways at you and I understand that that is going to cut off creativity in the room. And that is what I want most to be happening here. So I apologize now let's move forward, but that doesn't happen in the theater very often.
You know, no it does not, we were all very different places of wellness and self-awareness. We're all works in progress and we are beautiful. We are a beautiful work in progress. Yeah.
Taisha: [00:36:15] Heal the world. Question. What is the art you want to create for yourself and the world?
Erika: [00:36:27] So I'm really interested in something called Expressive Arts Therapy right now. And I just started learning about it and I'm not going to be able to give you a succinct definition for what that is. But I'll tell you how it made me feel.
Taisha: [00:36:45] Okay.
Erika: [00:36:46] So I took this class. It was three months long every Friday, it was called Art Cures life art material, like incubation. The title was very, very long. Okay. Exactly. But it sounds like something I need,it's a pandemic. I need fulness however I can get it. So, so anyway, this class was using drawing and painting and collage, and this is all through zoom by the way. So it's like whatever material you have that you want to get, procure, buy, whatever. Poetry like haikus storytelling, to using art, to hold your life challenge.
That's what we were doing. And so just for an example, one of the first classes we had, she said, choose a life challenge and a I'm like I got 10 of them, which I don't know which one to choose from. I was like, okay, I'll choose one. I thought I was going to come in here writing about this theme that I've wanted to write about for 10 years, but actually I'm okay. I'll take the risk and write about this current life challenge I'm having. And she kept saying like, our art can hold it. Your art can hold it. Okay. All right. So she said, come up with a metaphor for your challenge. Okay. Fractured bridge was my metaphor and we wrote about it, just a sh story, highlighted words that jumped out to us and then.
She, she asked us to draw, this challenge with, some prompts in there to sort of help guide us. And so, like I write this story, I've created an image, a metaphor for my life challenge. I have this image, we're asking questions about the image and, I'm writing a haiku about this life challenge that as is deeply felt and super challenging for me at this time.
And I'm afraid to do it, but I'm also like I'm using art to look at it, not just to like turn it around in my head, yell at my friends about the problem I'm having. I'm actually intentionally using art to hold it. So like over the process of the three months I was in this class, I created the metaphor for my challenge. And what she was suggesting to us is that we could also create a healing metaphor for this. And so over the course of the class, we created this healing metaphor and did all kinds of art around it movement and all kinds of stuff. It was, it was one of the most incredible experiences I've had in art-making.
And also one of the most incredible experiences I've had witnessing other people using art to hold the things that are coming up for them. They were dancers, they were visual artists. You know, they were just people who were in the room and it was eye opening to me, how deep and expansive, how many answers we have inside of ourselves, if we want to look. And so I've been thinking about one, learning more about expressive arts therapy.
So, yeah, magic that I felt like it was the doula spirit I was talking about earlier, the doula, the midwife. That's what I felt like that teacher was doing. I said to her, this feels like magic. Like I've drawn this thing that I didn't understand, but actually I do understand it. Like I did this thing, I had a feeling and I created this thing, but it was also like a dream speaking to you, you know, what is your dream time trying to tell you?
And so I'm going to sit with it. I'm going to create meaning out of my life material. And I'm gonna, you know, that is what it means. It means this positive thing. Oh, this positive thing is also here. Okay. Like, let me build on that. So anyway, I want to create a piece that allows the audience to in some way, step into the power of their own art-making I don't care who you are, you're a lawyer. Great. You know, what do you do? You sell tickets at, Ford's theater. Awesome. I need you.
Taisha: [00:41:12] Yeah.
Erika: [00:41:14] So an expressive arts therapy I don't know, moment, piece, or even just a class, but I really feel like it is so useful and the class is done, but I'm still using art to, to heal really.
I've had these tools, my whole life, all of us have these tools at our disposal whenever we need them was so powerful to me.
There is something that your own art making can help you gain access to that words alone can't. I'm super fascinated by it. And I want to use it to create theater. And I don't know what that looks like.
That's my answer.
Taisha: [00:41:51] I am excited for you to go down this journey and discover that so that we can all experience what theater will look like through that or how they connect together. Because that experience just seems like something we all need to have. Like you said, everyone. To give us those tools, to let us know that everything that we need to heal, we have, when we can own what we already have, it gives us the strength to move forward. And we, then we have the choice once you know that you are able to do that and have been opened up to how that could work. Like you said, just sitting down, okay. I got to make a metaphor. All right. Now I'm going to make a, write a poem. I don't write poetry, but I know how to write and I know words. So we're going to put them down and see what happens. Just the act of that. And knowing that it's possible to heal in that way, then you have the choice. Okay. Do I want to heal,
Erika: [00:42:54] Right?
Taisha: [00:42:54] Or do I want to continue holding onto this in this way?
Erika: [00:42:59] Oh, yes. Oh, that's so, yeah. The teacher mentioned a moment like that for us, because, you know, like far from that challenge, metaphor, healing, metaphor, we all took different times, like different, different paces.
And some of us, myself included, noted that it was like, I'm holding on to that challenge. It's like, I don't want to create the healing metaphor. Isn't that interesting? Huh. Okay. Okay. You know, so, so all of that, all of the journey, the whole thing was so, so informative, something that I was like, Ooh, it just, it gave me such deep satisfaction and also helped me understand I was digging in the right place for myself.
I've been talking to a friend of mine about this class over the whole course of the class, describing some things that were happening. Some guests, artists that had come and what I was learning and. My friend was saying that they were having a big whole life challenge. They had taken a walk in the park and the trees weren't doing it.
So there were like, when I went home and my child still hadn't put away their art material, like I told them to, but I was like, oh, Hey, Erica was talking about. Hmm. So they went over and grabbed the art material and started to like collage and write. And there was poetry and they sent me this picture and they were just like, I can't even tell you, this is like an actor too.
I can't even tell you how, like what a gift it was to be able to, to express myself in this way. They're like the container, the thing I usually did, wasn't working in, but I use my art, you know, anyway, it was really, it was really satisfying. Not because like I was right, but because I'm not as, like, I'm not crazy. This is really powerful. It worked, it is working for me and worked for this other artists. And I was like, Ooh, a way to take care of ourselves in the theater. You know, what, what do you do for yourself? What does the theater do for you? Not much when you're dealing with like deep, disturbing material, what is the container that you're putting it into?
You know, w even just, if you're talking about like, we're using it for theater, we're going to write about the challenge. This character is having. We're going to draw a painting about the challenge, your characters having, what, what was the way they could heal if they could, and you can use it just for your own, but, but but I've also been thinking about it for like actor mental wellness, How do you put back in the box, the things that you were asked to pull out of the box and are just hanging out in your life when you walk away on closing night?
Right. You know, right. The class also dealt with like rituals for yourself and what are your creative demons and what, what do you want to say to those demons? So you have a different sort of ritual for your overwhelm, for your distraction, for your anxiety. Like, what are the things that get in your way?
Like what happens to you? And so we like really talked about each of them and came up with things that would help us through them, but then also like rituals for, for us to get into an out of the work with gentleness. How do you set your space? What does that look like? And I was just like, well, how do I bring that into the theater, into the room?
Like, it's a sacred thing, what we do, and it's not always treated that way. By directors, other actors, like the culture in a particular space itself, sacred. Parenting is sacred, you know, but you can do any level of parenting at any level of acting, you know, you could treat it like it's a sacred thing.
Like you have somebody's life in your hands or you can, I don't know. I was going to say piss on it. I was trying to say something a little less gross,
Taisha: [00:46:58] This magic moment. Tell us about a magical moment with your child that's imprinted on your heart forever.
Erika: [00:47:11] My son is such a little love bug. My family, isn't very affectionate. We love each other very, very much. But it's not a space that I have felt most comfortable in. Now, my children have called on that, you know that I'm going to grab you all day, every day part of myself, it's always been there, you know, they've called on that. And, and I've been surprised by that. Surprise that I've, I have the capacity because physical affection wasn't necessarily modeled for me. So there's always a little bit, there was fear there of that kind of vulnerability, but it's just not the case with my kids. And, and also if I were to withhold affection from my love bug son , he would shrivel up my sweet little plant, would shrivel. So he, he will like, oh, he's just like rainbows every day.
He's like, it's a beautiful day randomly. Like. If I'm holding his hand and we're all together, he'll want all of us to hold hands. And when we hold hands, he's like, it's a rainbow. And I don't know exactly what he means now. Like, we are different hues, all of us, my husband's white, I'm black, my kids are biracial and my son is like a little bit lighter brown than me and my daughter is lighter brown than him. We're just that gradation. You know what I mean? And so like, I think that's what he means, but like, we're all holding hands. Like the joining of all of that. It's like, we're a rainbow, which just melts me every time. Every time. You can't get enough hugs and I can't get enough either. He's just up under me always. And it's it's a gift. It really is.
Taisha: [00:49:06] That's so special.
Erika: [00:49:07] Yeah, it really is. It's just all love. It's wonderful.
And like daughter. Oh, this is recently, this is in the last three months, which is great because we've had our moments here with the home, the virtual learning, and we're both sort of getting on each other's nerves and she's starting to have to do homework and she doesn't want to do it.
She'd rather play roadblocks. And anyway, so we've had our, like, you know, Tiff's, but we love talking to each other. I love talking to her and she loves talking to me. So we kind of waste time during the day when she should be doing her homework for just talking. And there was one day when she, he was like, mommy, do you think that when I have a daughter, she'll want to talk to me as much as I want to talk to you.
It was so beautiful. I didn't ask her that question, but that was a question in my head. It's like, thank God, I'm doing a terrible job. You know what I'm saying? Like, I'm an authoritarian what do you want to share with an authoritarian? I love talking to you. That's wonderful. I love talking to you too. And then she was like, remember that time when we were visiting AMA and Bapa, her grandparents, in Seattle and you put me to bed, but then we didn't go to bed and we just stayed up all night laughing and we just couldn't go to bed.
That was so fun. Cause we just kept talking. Cause I guess we like to talk to each other so much and I was like, we do, we do. We do. Yeah. I, I, I hope, I hope I don't forget that one. If I forget the details because of age one day, I don't think I'll ever be able to lose the feeling. The like the cell change that has occurred in my body.
Taisha: [00:50:55] That's all for today, guys and dolls. I hope you enjoyed my conversation with Erika today. I enjoyed speaking to her and I was so honored to share what she had to say with you.
Next week is the last episode for season two. So, later this summer, season three will be up and at'em, during this time, catch up on these last two seasons, follow MFA parenting edition on Instagram. And check out the website, send me an email or a message, letting me know the things that you would love to talk about, that you would love for me to explore on the show. I really want to hear your input so that I can create a space that you feel helps you the most, excites you the most, entertains you the most, whatever it is that you're looking for, let me know. And we'll build this show together. Again thanks and I'll see you on the other side.
Today's Raise a Glass lyrics: "Pride is not the word I'm looking for, there is so much more inside me now." ~ from Dear Theodosia in Hamilton
Follow MFA on instagram @mfaparentingedition
Leave a review on Podchaser
Support the show (https://www.buymeacoffee.com/mfaparenting)
________________________
Full Transcript:
MFA: The Parenting Edition, Episode 36
Erika: [00:00:00] When I have enjoyed theater, the most it's because it's being led by somebody who has this open container who knows, all they have to do is facilitate, be a doula and it will be greater than anything they could have imagined.
Taisha: [00:00:18] Welcome to MFA the Parenting Edition. I'm Taisha Cameron. These lessons from the theater for raising ourselves and our kids came about when I realized my MFA in acting trained me for life as a mommy, better than life as a full-time actor. In today's episode, we'll be talking with actor and mama of two little ones, Erika Rose. We'll explore some challenging questions and kick things off with a toast to parenthood with the Raise a Glass series. So without further ado, this is MFA.
Episode 36. Your Art Can Hold It.
The Raise a Glass series is a space for reflection and gratitude centered around the topic of the day and inspired by lyrics from Hamilton, the musical.
Pride is not the word I'm looking for. There's so much more inside me now.
All the feels, right? Our kids bring out feelings in us that we've had difficulty experiencing and expressing. They force us, ready or not, to become okay with our big emotions so we can help them with theirs. Sometimes we sense these big feelings come up and dig our feet into not changing. Sometimes we recognize the truth and how we have to evolve ourselves and we clinked desperately to wanting to control and not lose what we know of ourselves to be true so far. But if we allow ourselves to be rocked to the core by these new beings in the world, we've chosen to be a guide for, we'll learn things about ourselves we never knew existed. There is more inside us then we can imagine. And sometimes it takes us going on an epic adventure. To discover what we're made of.
Let's raise a glass to the epic adventure of being a parent and the pride and so much more it opens inside us.
What’s going on? And I said, Hey, yay. Yay. Yeah. I said, Hey. What's going on?
What's going on lovelies? Hello, hello, hello my lovely listeners. Thank you for tuning in for another episode of MFA the Parenting Edition. Man. I am going to take a break from this for a little while I am. I have been burnt out. I just got back from a vacation with my family up north and I realized that to give you the best of me and what I have to share with you that I want to help you, I need to take a break. So next week will be the last episode for season two. And then I'll go on a little break. And then later this summer I'll come back with season three. I've got a Ka billion ideas on what I want to do. So, I want to take the time to refresh recharge, get it all set and give you all, the best that I can.
Now. We have another great conversation. But before we start, I just wanted to check in about something. So, like I said, I was on vacation recently with my family and what I've been noticing being around my family and doing the parent thing is that I become very hyper aware of how my parenting style and choices and my daughter's behavior impact or may impact other people. Does that happen to anybody else? I'm pretty sure that's a universal feeling, right?
I always thought that I was going to be the parent, that my siblings would say, I'm going to send your ass to Titi Tai’s for the week, cause she's going to get you in line. I was preparing myself for this role. To be the strict parent, no child was going to pull any shit on me.
And then I became a mom. And I realized how all of those things that I was feeling and thinking just don't sit right with me anymore and don't work with her. And it's not that I haven't tried to be a little bit more aggressive. They just, they don't work in the way that either they worked with me, or I thought that they would.
We've tried giving Angelica more space to be a kid without so much micromanaging of her behavior and choices. It's still difficult. Chaotic. She pushes, she's defiant and it's tiring. But it feels more like we're connecting with another human and not training an animal to conform to human ways of being obedient. We've been looking at ways to connect, inspire, be creative and grow together as a family. And that's what my conversation revolves around today with Erika. Healing and evolving. So let's get on with the show.
Be our guest.
On the show today, I'll be sharing parts of my conversation with actor and mama of two munchkins, the lovely Erika Rose.
Erika is a three-time nominated, two-time Helen Hayes award winning actor for her work in Queens Girl in Africa and In Darfur. I know Erica from college at the University of Maryland College Park, go Terps! She was in all the shows and the theater department, one of the improv comedy troupes, and you knew watching her, she was a powerhouse. On her website she affirms, I want to work with people who, like me, are working on their capacity to truly listen, be accountable and honest. Make amends forgive and restore.
What the world would look like if we all made that affirmation. And now. On to our chat.
Choosing motherhood. Question. When did you know you wanted to be a mom?
Erika: [00:07:01] I don't think it was ever a calling for me until I met Patrick. And well, okay. So part of it was as a young 20 something not having been in a relationship. I mean, I couldn't think about having a child outside of a foundational kind of safe, loving relationship.
There are lots of people who could imagine having children just that that's their calling. That was not me because I was just like, I can't even get my, my stuff together, you know, just on my own. So, what am I, what am I, how would, I couldn't picture myself with anybody? Like, you know, I had like, like relationships that had lasted for three months, and I was like, this kids are alive for a lot longer than three months, so figure something else out.
But you know, when I met Patrick like seven years into our relationship, well, right away, I thought like, yeah, this is, well, now I can see it. I can see how wonderful a father he would be. And if there's anybody that I've met so far, or that I could possibly meet, who would be a loving father, who I could trust, no matter what, like, no matter what happened to either of us, that he would be an amazing father.
So that is when I actually started to consider it. And then like seven years after we'd been together, we decided to go on an adventure together.
I don't know. If, if I thought about what kind of mother I was going to be, I mean, I think for a lot of my, a lot of my life, a lot of the experiences I've had, it's been about an adventure, an experience that I want to have on this planet before I go. And that's good to be kind of selfish maybe, but it's also like everything we had to get to all these choices.
You can make all these choices. What colors do you want to have in your life? What colors do you want to paint with that color and what that experience with you? You know, I want that experience with Patrick. Let's do this together. I don't know what's going to be like, I don't know who I'm going to be. Mom, no clue. So, I just said, we just said yes, and, you know, wide eyed and excited and terrified at each step even now.
Taisha: [00:09:32] And who do you feel you've turned into or become, or are growing into as a mom?
Erika: [00:09:39] Huh? Okay. So, I've only been a mother for six and a half years. Two children. Six-and-a-half-year-old and a four-year-old. So, I feel like I'm, I'm young yet. I feel I'm as young as my children, his mother. So I feel like for the first time, in the last two years that I've been able to understand that whoever I want to be as a parent, it has to do with who I want to be as a human being, just period, that whatever, however, I'm going to show up for them in their lives. However, I'm going to help them become who they're meant to be. Whatever that, whoever that person is like, I can't just, I can't just sort of do it as this like sidebar. I'm just going to get these motherhood skills, which are so helpful. I went to this parenting, coach me a Patrick super helpful crisis we were having. But but there are things that I have wanted to look at, or haven't, haven't wanted to look at
Taisha: [00:10:48] That's it right there. Right? What have we been avoiding?
Erika: [00:10:52] Yeah, yeah, yeah. And that I can't avoid now that they're here because th you know, I, I'm not as patient, as I thought I would be. I say all of this with a growing sense of grace and gentleness for myself as a human being. But, but also I'm not as patient as I thought it would be. I thought that I would be a parent who my kids would feel comfortable talking to about everything and they do feel comfortable talking to me about a lot of things, but it's hard. To feel super comfortable and safe with somebody who's also like, you know, kind of an authoritarian, like that's the word I'm giving it.
So like having a democratic kind of household where they are able to be fully seen and heard and know that their feelings matter and that mistakes are just like opportunities, mistakes are, are not failures. That’s great. You're able to learn you learn from that. They can build and bond and not get caught in the morass. You know?
You asked me like, what kind of parent did I, have I discovered myself to be, and I can't answer it because I'm still discovering it.
Taisha: [00:12:18] When you brought up authoritarian, do you feel like that is part of your own upbringing that is just like melting over?
Erika: [00:12:29] Totally. Yeah, absolutely.
And it's so it's so interesting. I don't know if this is like a pattern for everybody, but you know, if you choose to parent with someone, whether you choose somebody who's like this other side of yourself or something that you would like to make sure is in your children's lives. But anyway, my husband is not an authoritarian he's he said he was permissive permissive.
But he's like, he, he, he is such a beautiful communicator and I can do that on stage and super perceptive and curious. But there's something about my upbringing and I couldn't tell you like every experience I had, but because I'm experiencing myself right now as a parent, well then there must have been something I saw a model.
So, you know, like, just get over it, you know that was like, you get what you get and you don't get upset, you know, we're supposed to be really polite, polite, wonderful, but like to a fault, like in a way that you might not let someone know how you actually feel about pain know. Suck it up, deal with it. It's because I said so, that's what you get if something's gone wrong. And especially if they told you not to do it, and if there's a consequence, that's what you get, you know? Mistakes were heartfelt, super heartfelt. Yeah. And, and, you know, like being seen and not heard and being quiet. And so, there are things about that that I didn't enjoy, but then also there was a part of me that was like, ah, come on, I turned out fine. I'm great. I'm all right. Like, what's wrong with that? I was like, well, but, but even when I'm trying to sort of like recreate some of the things that my parents did, cause I don't have any other tools and I see that it doesn't quite fit right. In my own skin, in my body. And also like, it doesn't quite fit right with my husband's style of parenting. And it also just a fit right on my kids. It's like, well, whatever I thought about how right it was, or just like fine, it was for me, that doesn't fit here. I'm a different person. My children are different. My husband is different. I need some new tools. So, so Yeah,
Taisha: [00:14:57] that just got, I got very emotional listening to you say that because it, it rings so true.
There's so many things that I look at in my, the way I was parented. And I, I definitely thought I was looking at things very objectively and you know, my parents were great with this, but not great with that. And, and there was stuff that I was like, I'm doing this, this is the type of parent, mom I know I'm going to be, I'm going to be like this and this and this that says, and there are things that just don't feel right. They don't fit with who I'm becoming with the mom that I, that my daughter is showing me that she needs.
Erika: [00:15:37] Yeah.
Taisha: [00:15:38] And there's, there's that sense of, okay, now I've recognized, I've seen that this is not working.
Erika: [00:15:45] Right.
Taisha: [00:15:46] And with that question of, you know, well, I turned out okay then does she know that she'd be fine. Okay. First of all, is w is that what we're all aspiring to, to just like be okay. And like, kind of get through life and then is the facing like, am I really okay?
Erika: [00:16:04] Yes. Right. What did you say? You turned out fine. You're okay. When you just said a couple of sentences ago, what did you just say? You were like, who, who your daughter is showing you she needs.
Taisha: [00:16:20] Yeah
Erika: [00:16:21] That really, that really struck me. That, I feel like I feel like I've been catching up in a way to parenting and what it requires of me and that you can, you can do all levels of parenting, you know, like all levels. Until, until your job is sort of quote, unquote done. They're like you can make any choice. But I, I want to like to be present enough in your relationship with your child to actually hear and feel like to discern what they need and whether or not you are at that moment equipped to give it to them. And if you're not equipped, like to get curious about that, so that, that is where I am at this moment.
There are ways that I have been that are just ways that I've been, because I haven't been examining it because life, because I'm in shows because there are tasks because the kids need to eat and we need to work and the laundry needs to get done and blah, blah, blah, blah there's there's. So. Like introspection, the intentionality and parenting, and also like discovery of self, it takes time. It takes time and, and I just wasn't giving it time. And so like, even just the presence of mind to be checking in with your child about what they're saying to you, what they need. So it's like, okay, maybe I'm not yet at a place where I can give them what they need, but like, oh, wow. Oh look, I heard it. Okay. You know, that's big because before I wasn't listening,
Taisha: [00:18:11] Lessons from the theater. Question. What lessons from the theater help you through motherhood?
Erika: [00:18:22] I'll say play and curiosity and exploration and being comfortable with not knowing following the thread, following their thread, what are they interested in? What did they think? There's gold there in their creativity. So I'd say theater has helped me find or, or create a kind of like open container for their creativity.
Like a place for them to put it. It's given me tools to share with them so they can explore their own creativity. Something I've been recognizing in myself, even just with their creativity that it makes me think about the teaching too. Like really great teachers are teaching a skill, but don't tell you how to do it. Montessori education in particular, but Montessori teachers remind me of like facilitators or guides,
Taisha: [00:19:22] Right.
Erika: [00:19:22] They're teaching skills, but they're, their job seems to be, to empower you to believe in, to step into and to like to harness your own creativity to, to have the competence of your own creativity for other people to answer your questions, and you're curious about your own thoughts that, that, whatever you're curious about, follow that, and that is exactly what you should be doing.
So, so I say all that to say, I noticed I'm not good at it. Yeah.
But I feel like it's magic when I've seen teachers do that. Not just teachers, but directors and creatives, when I've seen people sort of be doulas or midwives, or, you know, facilitators for creativity who don't, who believe that you actually know more than they do, because you do know more than me about your own creativity.
How could I dare say what you should be doing or how you should finish off that painting or create that invention that you just dreamed up, you know, I could get any materials, but also these are the only materials I can think of. There are like 500 more. So, so I think theater, you know, the, the exploration, when I have enjoyed theater, the most it's because it's, it's being a play or an experience is being led by somebody who has this open container who knows, but also knows that there are, five people in the room who have like the world inside them. And like, all they have to do is facilitate, be a doula and it will be greater than anything they could have imagined, you know? So like that, and that way I think theater has encouraged me to try to learn how to use my skills in a gentle, a gentle way, you know? Like a doula, this baby's coming, so what's the experience going to be like, you know, how empowered is the parents going to feel as this baby comes? You know, how safe are they going to feel? That's my only job. And I feel like theater has helped me understand that, the ways in which I feel like I'm trying to birth this baby on stage here. And you're telling me that's not the way to birth it. You want me to do what? Sit on what don't tell me how to birth this baby. Tell me not, no, you don't know. You don't know
Taisha: [00:21:54] An inspiring journey. Question. What is one of the most satisfying or gratifying experiences you've had in the theater?
Erika: [00:22:08] Two things come to mind and you remember this director named Carrie Upton.
Taisha: [00:22:14] Yeah.
Erika: [00:22:15] Okay. Okay. So we did Private Eyes and it was about this married couple. There was infidelity. We didn't know about that. We didn't have 19 year olds talking about infidelity marriage. But he started rehearsal reading this book called I think it was Free Play.
Taisha: [00:22:33] Yeah. I remember that, but yeah, I don't know if it was from his class to that or him, but I have that book from Maryland because some teacher at some point brought it up.
Erika: [00:22:45] Yeah. See now I bring this up and it's like, cause I have this feeling, but now like the details are kind of fuzzy.
Taisha: [00:22:50] Go with the feeling.
Erika: [00:22:51] Go with the feeling? Okay. He read this passage, this passage from, from the book and it was talking about jazz and improvisation like the magic of it and how each piece each instrument was like, you know, do I anyway, see see see?
I don't have no , but he just like created this container this container of excitement and possibility. And he was inviting us to play. He was inviting us not to know, he was inviting us to be in that space of fear of, I feel like I am afraid when I feel like I'm supposed to know. When I feel like everybody around me is pretending like they also know yeah. As parents, you know, as,
Taisha: [00:23:43] Oh my God.
Erika: [00:23:45] Right? Scrap the first read because we're all trying to act like we're supposed to have gotten the job.
Like, let's get to know one another what's happening with us, you know? But so like there was some kind of like artifice that was taken away from the process or, or not artifice. It was like this block. I thought theater is supposed to be this one way. I'm supposed to come into the room, having done all this work. I've prepared I've studied all the methods and you know, I'm doing the score the way my teachers, I am my objective and my blah, blah, blah.
Taisha: [00:24:25] I got all my beats marked here.
Erika: [00:24:28] Right. It's like all that's useful and you don't know. And that is where the beauty is. And can we all just stop pretending like we know and then like, what's going to happen. Well, then I'm not like protecting myself and defending myself. So anyway, that experience that I didn't really give you any details about was awesome.
He also said, I'll never forget this. Cause we'd gossiped all the time about what was happening and shows like you knew all the ti than any show that was happening. He was like, I invite you to not talk about this show, to not gossip and send your energy, like your negative energy, like out that way to create a narrative or a story about our show that has nothing to do with what we're creating here. I invite you to bring everything you are and everything you have. I invite you to like, bring it back into the room to feed and fuel our process. Like if you have a problem, bring it here. If you have a concern or curiosity or whatever, bring it here. Like this is a safe place. It's the container. And like, it was the most beautiful experience I've ever had. And he definitely felt like a doula kind of spirit. You know, it might've been like one other show I've done in my career that I felt that way too, with a director named Derrick Goldman, who works at the Lab of Global Performance. I can't remember the name, but at Georgetown an amazing director who's also like a doula kind of spirit for me.
Taisha: [00:25:57] There was something I just had connected to what you just finished talking about with Carrie. Oh, in that, creating that container, that safe space. Do you, cause what it made me think of is in the, like the not gossiping and not sending out, negative things that might, like circle or cycle itself, back through. In parenting have you found that in trying to find a lot more tools and having a lot more people's experiences and thoughts and ideas in your head has been more helpful or harmful to you connecting to what's true and creating a safe space to grow for your family?
Erika: [00:26:43] Yeah. Oh, oh, that's a good question. Let's see. I judged myself quite a lot. And it, it kind of doesn't matter. I'm a little bit better now, but it's like, especially in the beginning, it didn't matter what anybody was saying about my parenting or even about their own child. I would take it personally. It's like, are you saying that about how you parent your child because you're trying to tell me something about how I parent my child, you know, oh God, just the really, it's hard enough with your own brain.
Taisha: [00:27:16] I laughed out of connection of knowing that I've done that. I've had those moments or I've created that narrative in my head where what they might be sharing could be. It has nothing to do with me. It might, I don't know, but it doesn't have to, I don't have to interpret it that way. I don't have to make it personal.
Erika: [00:27:42] Right.
Taisha: [00:27:43] Unless they're literally coming out and being like, you're a terrible parent. You should never have children again. You're doing an horrendous job then. Yeah. Probably going to take that personally. But outside of that, it's not my stuff to carry yet I know I've had the same reaction.
Erika: [00:28:01] Yeah, oy. Yeah. That, that one is, is tough. Yeah. It's not mine to carrying. The creating the narrative. There's so much that. Yeah. I just like all of a sudden, it makes me think about how, just how powerful we are as human beings that we can create that like everything is creation.
That you can use your powers of creation from good, right. Create a narrative in your brain about how you're doing your best Erica. And you know, you you're in your mother and your father did their best with the tools that they had in the time that they were born in the family that they were born into. And you were also doing your best. And we're also trying to grow and that's all you can do.
So we just went to this parenting coach for like three months. See her again, at some point we kind of got through the roughest patch, like the thing we were most concerned about. And I was like, you know, some negative behavior. And it was really helpful for me to talk to some other parents about the difficulties we were having, because I was kind of embarrassed about it. But then, you know, when I, allowed myself, to be honest about what was happening, that I didn't know what to do.
The other parents two other parents in particular started telling me they're really tough stories. And you know, one of them was in the middle of it. He didn't have any advice that worked for them. And the other one, you know, had some great advice. So I do. I mean, I'm like, I'm absorbing. Sometimes I take it personally better now than I was before, but I I'm absorbing everything.
And it it's, it's tricky because, you know, when you were saying earlier, like your child telling you what she needs, you know, my child telling you what she needs and my son telling you what he needs, they're individuals, they are super unique. There are things about our psychology that are similar. You know, that's what a therapist can go to school and learn this particular method, because there's like a similar way, our brains work and stuff that like kids are different.
So I've also, I think, begun to learn that if a parent, my mother, my mother-in-law, my father-in-law friends, aunties, uncles, other parents tell me what I should do or what they did that it's like grain of salt because they're not, not in my life. They're not me. I would have to interpret whatever they're telling me through my own, you know, cultural lens and like where I am emotionally and all of that. Plus my kid is different. So, you know I I'm reading online all the time. I'm talking to people about what's happening and the parenting coach was super, super helpful. So I, I, I do let, let other people influence me. And a particular mom. I won't say her name, but she said who's like just one of the most creative people I know. I just admire her so much and I don't know if I've ever told her that I will, but I just kind of observe. And and I've started to incorporate some things she's doing. I should probably tell her.
Taisha: [00:31:12] Yeah, yeah.
Erika: [00:31:15] Ask her questions and let's say she's a beautiful mom and she's doing a great job. I guess we should tell each other that more often.
Taisha: [00:31:23] We should, we definitely should.
Mirror mirror on the wall. Question. What have your children mirrored back to you that you wish you hadn't taught or passed on to them? course correct. My daughter is a little mommy to my son, you know, she's got whatever I say. I can hear her repeating it to him upstairs or like somewhere else. But he, he did something and I don't know, there was some kind of correction that I gave. And then right afterwards, she was like, well, you know, if you hadn't done this, then that wouldn't have happened.
Erika: [00:32:08] And I was like, that is me.
Like, hold on. Wait, wait, wait. Like he already took responsibility for it. No need to rub it in. Why are you in an I told you so space? Oh, because I am. Why, why was that about, what is that? Why do I do that? Do I need to do that? I just said, you know, mistakes are learning opportunities. So, what place does I told you so has learning opportunities.
So it was like how do you actually the things I, I that I believe I value operationalize those things with like words and language. Give me three phrases that I can say, you know, anyway, that moment I was like, oh man. Okay. So I'm hard on them. I'm hard on myself. Oh, I'm hard on myself. Oh, I want to get it right.
Don't like making mistakes. You know, all the things I say, the woo woo things I say, I still don't want to make mistakes. I still beat myself up about the mistakes I make. And I'll be thinking about something that happened five years ago. It's like, it's done, you know, let it go.
Taisha: [00:33:24] Yes,
Erika: [00:33:26] Let me get on my journey to letting those things go and saying to myself, you're doing your best. Let me create this healing metaphor for myself and walk down that path. So I can like maybe share that with my kids as a tool for themselves and their own lives. Add some more tools to my own toolbox so they can have more for themselves.
Taisha: [00:33:46] Are you just as hard on yourself in acting?
Erika: [00:33:50] Very hard on, hard on myself in the theater. Yeah. I think I've, I've gone in phases or waves or something, but I wasn't always this way. It wasn't so acute, but the kind of, creative demon that says like, that was really dumb or, you're not supposed to be here or, you know, all, all of the things you you've done how many shows and you don't really know what this moment is about that actor does. This actors, like, why are you cast opposite me?
No. And I said this thing, all, all that stuff, all that stuff. The director just ask me to do this thing and I can't quite make it happen. And I know they're disappointed and disappointed Lord, all the stuff that is in the way. All that stuff is in a way. So yeah, I am, I am, which is why it's most helpful for me to work with artists that are giving and kind and because I can be kind and giving to other people. It's hard for me to do it for myself, but like being with people who are like doula spirits is the only way that I can like flush those kind of creative demons out, you know, they're not going to go away, but they can, they can like be there, but in their proper place, you know what I mean? Like I'm never going to get them to go away, but sometimes they override everything. They are in the way of the flow and the creativity. So but being in a room with people who understand that it's sacred, even if it's like sacred play, it's the fricking comedy, I need to be in a room with people who are not going to add to that negative voice in my head. And if they do add to it I need them to know that they added to it to address that. To be self aware enough, to be like, Hey, I'm going through something right now. I just talked to you in this way and that's not okay.
I want to be better. I'm frustrated by this thing. I feel like this because I don't know how to help you. And so I came out of my neck sideways at you and I understand that that is going to cut off creativity in the room. And that is what I want most to be happening here. So I apologize now let's move forward, but that doesn't happen in the theater very often.
You know, no it does not, we were all very different places of wellness and self-awareness. We're all works in progress and we are beautiful. We are a beautiful work in progress. Yeah.
Taisha: [00:36:15] Heal the world. Question. What is the art you want to create for yourself and the world?
Erika: [00:36:27] So I'm really interested in something called Expressive Arts Therapy right now. And I just started learning about it and I'm not going to be able to give you a succinct definition for what that is. But I'll tell you how it made me feel.
Taisha: [00:36:45] Okay.
Erika: [00:36:46] So I took this class. It was three months long every Friday, it was called Art Cures life art material, like incubation. The title was very, very long. Okay. Exactly. But it sounds like something I need,it's a pandemic. I need fulness however I can get it. So, so anyway, this class was using drawing and painting and collage, and this is all through zoom by the way. So it's like whatever material you have that you want to get, procure, buy, whatever. Poetry like haikus storytelling, to using art, to hold your life challenge.
That's what we were doing. And so just for an example, one of the first classes we had, she said, choose a life challenge and a I'm like I got 10 of them, which I don't know which one to choose from. I was like, okay, I'll choose one. I thought I was going to come in here writing about this theme that I've wanted to write about for 10 years, but actually I'm okay. I'll take the risk and write about this current life challenge I'm having. And she kept saying like, our art can hold it. Your art can hold it. Okay. All right. So she said, come up with a metaphor for your challenge. Okay. Fractured bridge was my metaphor and we wrote about it, just a sh story, highlighted words that jumped out to us and then.
She, she asked us to draw, this challenge with, some prompts in there to sort of help guide us. And so, like I write this story, I've created an image, a metaphor for my life challenge. I have this image, we're asking questions about the image and, I'm writing a haiku about this life challenge that as is deeply felt and super challenging for me at this time.
And I'm afraid to do it, but I'm also like I'm using art to look at it, not just to like turn it around in my head, yell at my friends about the problem I'm having. I'm actually intentionally using art to hold it. So like over the process of the three months I was in this class, I created the metaphor for my challenge. And what she was suggesting to us is that we could also create a healing metaphor for this. And so over the course of the class, we created this healing metaphor and did all kinds of art around it movement and all kinds of stuff. It was, it was one of the most incredible experiences I've had in art-making.
And also one of the most incredible experiences I've had witnessing other people using art to hold the things that are coming up for them. They were dancers, they were visual artists. You know, they were just people who were in the room and it was eye opening to me, how deep and expansive, how many answers we have inside of ourselves, if we want to look. And so I've been thinking about one, learning more about expressive arts therapy.
So, yeah, magic that I felt like it was the doula spirit I was talking about earlier, the doula, the midwife. That's what I felt like that teacher was doing. I said to her, this feels like magic. Like I've drawn this thing that I didn't understand, but actually I do understand it. Like I did this thing, I had a feeling and I created this thing, but it was also like a dream speaking to you, you know, what is your dream time trying to tell you?
And so I'm going to sit with it. I'm going to create meaning out of my life material. And I'm gonna, you know, that is what it means. It means this positive thing. Oh, this positive thing is also here. Okay. Like, let me build on that. So anyway, I want to create a piece that allows the audience to in some way, step into the power of their own art-making I don't care who you are, you're a lawyer. Great. You know, what do you do? You sell tickets at, Ford's theater. Awesome. I need you.
Taisha: [00:41:12] Yeah.
Erika: [00:41:14] So an expressive arts therapy I don't know, moment, piece, or even just a class, but I really feel like it is so useful and the class is done, but I'm still using art to, to heal really.
I've had these tools, my whole life, all of us have these tools at our disposal whenever we need them was so powerful to me.
There is something that your own art making can help you gain access to that words alone can't. I'm super fascinated by it. And I want to use it to create theater. And I don't know what that looks like.
That's my answer.
Taisha: [00:41:51] I am excited for you to go down this journey and discover that so that we can all experience what theater will look like through that or how they connect together. Because that experience just seems like something we all need to have. Like you said, everyone. To give us those tools, to let us know that everything that we need to heal, we have, when we can own what we already have, it gives us the strength to move forward. And we, then we have the choice once you know that you are able to do that and have been opened up to how that could work. Like you said, just sitting down, okay. I got to make a metaphor. All right. Now I'm going to make a, write a poem. I don't write poetry, but I know how to write and I know words. So we're going to put them down and see what happens. Just the act of that. And knowing that it's possible to heal in that way, then you have the choice. Okay. Do I want to heal,
Erika: [00:42:54] Right?
Taisha: [00:42:54] Or do I want to continue holding onto this in this way?
Erika: [00:42:59] Oh, yes. Oh, that's so, yeah. The teacher mentioned a moment like that for us, because, you know, like far from that challenge, metaphor, healing, metaphor, we all took different times, like different, different paces.
And some of us, myself included, noted that it was like, I'm holding on to that challenge. It's like, I don't want to create the healing metaphor. Isn't that interesting? Huh. Okay. Okay. You know, so, so all of that, all of the journey, the whole thing was so, so informative, something that I was like, Ooh, it just, it gave me such deep satisfaction and also helped me understand I was digging in the right place for myself.
I've been talking to a friend of mine about this class over the whole course of the class, describing some things that were happening. Some guests, artists that had come and what I was learning and. My friend was saying that they were having a big whole life challenge. They had taken a walk in the park and the trees weren't doing it.
So there were like, when I went home and my child still hadn't put away their art material, like I told them to, but I was like, oh, Hey, Erica was talking about. Hmm. So they went over and grabbed the art material and started to like collage and write. And there was poetry and they sent me this picture and they were just like, I can't even tell you, this is like an actor too.
I can't even tell you how, like what a gift it was to be able to, to express myself in this way. They're like the container, the thing I usually did, wasn't working in, but I use my art, you know, anyway, it was really, it was really satisfying. Not because like I was right, but because I'm not as, like, I'm not crazy. This is really powerful. It worked, it is working for me and worked for this other artists. And I was like, Ooh, a way to take care of ourselves in the theater. You know, what, what do you do for yourself? What does the theater do for you? Not much when you're dealing with like deep, disturbing material, what is the container that you're putting it into?
You know, w even just, if you're talking about like, we're using it for theater, we're going to write about the challenge. This character is having. We're going to draw a painting about the challenge, your characters having, what, what was the way they could heal if they could, and you can use it just for your own, but, but but I've also been thinking about it for like actor mental wellness, How do you put back in the box, the things that you were asked to pull out of the box and are just hanging out in your life when you walk away on closing night?
Right. You know, right. The class also dealt with like rituals for yourself and what are your creative demons and what, what do you want to say to those demons? So you have a different sort of ritual for your overwhelm, for your distraction, for your anxiety. Like, what are the things that get in your way?
Like what happens to you? And so we like really talked about each of them and came up with things that would help us through them, but then also like rituals for, for us to get into an out of the work with gentleness. How do you set your space? What does that look like? And I was just like, well, how do I bring that into the theater, into the room?
Like, it's a sacred thing, what we do, and it's not always treated that way. By directors, other actors, like the culture in a particular space itself, sacred. Parenting is sacred, you know, but you can do any level of parenting at any level of acting, you know, you could treat it like it's a sacred thing.
Like you have somebody's life in your hands or you can, I don't know. I was going to say piss on it. I was trying to say something a little less gross,
Taisha: [00:46:58] This magic moment. Tell us about a magical moment with your child that's imprinted on your heart forever.
Erika: [00:47:11] My son is such a little love bug. My family, isn't very affectionate. We love each other very, very much. But it's not a space that I have felt most comfortable in. Now, my children have called on that, you know that I'm going to grab you all day, every day part of myself, it's always been there, you know, they've called on that. And, and I've been surprised by that. Surprise that I've, I have the capacity because physical affection wasn't necessarily modeled for me. So there's always a little bit, there was fear there of that kind of vulnerability, but it's just not the case with my kids. And, and also if I were to withhold affection from my love bug son , he would shrivel up my sweet little plant, would shrivel. So he, he will like, oh, he's just like rainbows every day.
He's like, it's a beautiful day randomly. Like. If I'm holding his hand and we're all together, he'll want all of us to hold hands. And when we hold hands, he's like, it's a rainbow. And I don't know exactly what he means now. Like, we are different hues, all of us, my husband's white, I'm black, my kids are biracial and my son is like a little bit lighter brown than me and my daughter is lighter brown than him. We're just that gradation. You know what I mean? And so like, I think that's what he means, but like, we're all holding hands. Like the joining of all of that. It's like, we're a rainbow, which just melts me every time. Every time. You can't get enough hugs and I can't get enough either. He's just up under me always. And it's it's a gift. It really is.
Taisha: [00:49:06] That's so special.
Erika: [00:49:07] Yeah, it really is. It's just all love. It's wonderful.
And like daughter. Oh, this is recently, this is in the last three months, which is great because we've had our moments here with the home, the virtual learning, and we're both sort of getting on each other's nerves and she's starting to have to do homework and she doesn't want to do it.
She'd rather play roadblocks. And anyway, so we've had our, like, you know, Tiff's, but we love talking to each other. I love talking to her and she loves talking to me. So we kind of waste time during the day when she should be doing her homework for just talking. And there was one day when she, he was like, mommy, do you think that when I have a daughter, she'll want to talk to me as much as I want to talk to you.
It was so beautiful. I didn't ask her that question, but that was a question in my head. It's like, thank God, I'm doing a terrible job. You know what I'm saying? Like, I'm an authoritarian what do you want to share with an authoritarian? I love talking to you. That's wonderful. I love talking to you too. And then she was like, remember that time when we were visiting AMA and Bapa, her grandparents, in Seattle and you put me to bed, but then we didn't go to bed and we just stayed up all night laughing and we just couldn't go to bed.
That was so fun. Cause we just kept talking. Cause I guess we like to talk to each other so much and I was like, we do, we do. We do. Yeah. I, I, I hope, I hope I don't forget that one. If I forget the details because of age one day, I don't think I'll ever be able to lose the feeling. The like the cell change that has occurred in my body.
Taisha: [00:50:55] That's all for today, guys and dolls. I hope you enjoyed my conversation with Erika today. I enjoyed speaking to her and I was so honored to share what she had to say with you.
Next week is the last episode for season two. So, later this summer, season three will be up and at'em, during this time, catch up on these last two seasons, follow MFA parenting edition on Instagram. And check out the website, send me an email or a message, letting me know the things that you would love to talk about, that you would love for me to explore on the show. I really want to hear your input so that I can create a space that you feel helps you the most, excites you the most, entertains you the most, whatever it is that you're looking for, let me know. And we'll build this show together. Again thanks and I'll see you on the other side.