|
|
Show Notes for Episode 29
This week's Artistic Parenting conversation is with actor and father, and friend from grad school days at The New School for Drama, Mitchell Diehr. We talk family values, the lessons he's learned from the theatre that guide him in raising his son, the importance of self-reflection and self-growth. We'll also get a magical moment with his son that is forever imprinted on his heart.
Today's Raise a Glass lyrics are:
They think me Macbeth, ambition is my folly,
I'm a polymath, a pain in the ass, massive pain
Madison is Banquo
Jefferson's MacDuff
And Birnam Wood is Congress on it's way to Dunsinane.
Podchaser #Reviews4Good kicks off this April and MFA wants to join the support of Meals on Wheels. Leave a review to raise money. It's that simple.
Rate the show: https://www.podchaser.com/podcasts/mfa-the-parenting-edition-1370329
Follow on Instagram: @mfaparentingedition
Full Transcript:
Mitchell Diehr
That tenderheartedness my son's picked up on it and part of me is happy about that. Part of me is like, Oh, he's gonna get hurt. He's gonna go out in the world and his heart is gonna get broken.
Taisha Cameron
Welcome to MFA, the parenting edition. I'm Taisha Cameron. These lessons from the theater for raising ourselves and our kids came about when I realized my MFA in acting trained me for life as a mommy better than life as a full time actor. Today I'll be talking to actor and father Mitchell Diehr about the lessons he's learned in the theater that guide him on his parenting journey. So without further ado, this is MFA Episode 29. I'm the one who has to grow. Hello, Hello, lovely. Today we have another artistic parenting conversation with actor Michel Diehr. The artistic parenting series for anyone joining in for the first time is a collection of chats with artists on the lessons from the theater they've learned to help raise themselves and their kids. Now my goal for this particular series of episodes is to share gifts from other artists to help us see the world the arts, our kids and ourselves with new eyes. Be Our Guest. On the show today, I'll be sharing parts of my conversation with Mitchell Travis Diehr, aka Careless. I'm sorry, what did you call him? Take a quick listen. So okay, I just want to clear up one thing. Um...what do you want me to call you right now? So, when we met the name that everyone was calling you your name that you said was like, call me this name is Careless,
Mitchell Diehr
Yeah,
Taisha Cameron
from School for Scandal. And, and, and we did. And then by the, by the time we were finishing grad school, I feel like Mitchell or Mitch started, like coming into it. And so when I got in touch with you like, and we spoke earlier, and you were just like you said, hey, it's Careless. I was like, wait a minute, what am I calling him on the show. Sir, what would you like to be called?
Mitchell Diehr
I mean, really, the difference for that is? It's kind of like, Are you my friend? Or is this a professional thing? You know, if it's a professional thing that I tend to go by my name, the part of the reason I like that nickname is the camaraderie that I feel with it, in theater. I feel like some people growing up their name to name that just seems to fit them perfectly. I never really felt like my name did that. It's not like I dislike it. It's just never was quite had the same punch. My parents, It's Jim Jane and then my brother's, Justin. So I always felt like I should have been a Jack. So I always felt like my name is stuck out a little bit. Got my nickname. I was like, latched on to it. I'm like, yep, that's what it is.
Taisha Cameron
Well, Careless is a dear friend of mine. And he will forever be called that in my book. He is a tremendously talented actor, a loving father of a teenager, which means he went through our training, our grad school drama training with a toddler, I'm still in awe, or disbelief that that happened. Today, we talk about family values, how parenting leads us down the path of self growth, how theatre can bring about change, and what it can teach us about ourselves in the world, theater lessons that guide him as a parent, and we'll get a magical moment with him and his son. So let's not waste any more time and jump right in Family values and what the theater can teach us. Question. It's a question. I'm asking everyone. So let's get straight to it. What are your family values?
Mitchell Diehr
The family values thing, yes. There were certain things that I think a lot of people do this. When they start to have children or they begin to have children. They they think, what is important to me that I pass on to them. And this actually does, I think, in some way, the values that I wanted to pass on, in some ways, I do feel has been influenced by my life in theater, because one of the things that I explored quite often. At least for myself, being a theatre artist, is putting myself into other people's shoes, and really trying to think, like, What is that like for another person? Now, obviously, we can't exactly know. But in a lot of ways that is the job of a theatre artist is, what would that feel like? And a lot of times, obviously, the only way we can approach it is like, what would that feel like to me, if that's the way I was treated, or that's what I was going through in my life? um, and putting yourself in so many different shoes, and experiencing those different lives, even in miniature, I think opens you up in a certain way, opens up your heart, you know. And so a lot of the values that I have tried to teach my own son has been along that line of think what it's like for other people. And obviously, that branches out in so many other different directions. Like, what is it like for a woman in this world? What is it like for a person of color in this world, and like, I've taken him on BLM marches, and explained to him like this, this is the reality of this world right now. And the reason we're out here, like you're in the cold with me, and we're out walking down a street with all these other people, is because of this, and that's not fair that these people have to live in a world like this. And that's why we are out here is because we're trying to help in any small way that we can, and work for a better world. So a lot of the things that I have tried to do and passed along as a parent is, think about other people. Think about what it's like for them. And obviously, would you want that to happen to you? And if you see that something's wrong, do something about it, do what you can, at the very least create something better?
Taisha Cameron
Do you think that theatre can create something better?
Mitchell Diehr
I think it can help. I think it's the job of an artist quite often to hold a mirror up, and to show people like, Oh, this is what you look like right now. And sometimes,
Taisha Cameron
and it's crazy change.
Mitchell Diehr
Right. And sometimes people are very upset with that. They're like, I do not like this right? Oh, I can't remember the name of the play. Miss Julie, I believe. Right. Where I believe the history of that is there was actually a riot during the first performance of Miss Julie. Because in that play, you have a servant with the lady of the house.
Taisha Cameron
Yeah,
Mitchell Diehr
in a fair, and just how, you know, untoward that is how horrible and, you know, we as a modern person, we see that play, and we're kind of like, Oh, that's interesting. But we wouldn't riot,
Taisha Cameron
right?
Mitchell Diehr
Because a serve an ad a relation with the lady of the house,
Taisha Cameron
right?
Mitchell Diehr
They did at that time, just change obviously can be painfully painfully slow. And there can be steps forward and three steps back, sometimes it feels like to. But as an artist, we hold that mirror up. We put something out there. And sometimes people will see it and they will say oh yeah, we need to change. Or you put an alternate thing out there and you say, Oh, this is what it could look like. And then people say, Oh, yeah, I want the world to look like that. Like a lot of people. I'm stuck in doors right now. And you know, Netflix is the godsend for a lot of people. I've been rewatching all of the Star Trek's because they have all of the Star Trek
Taisha Cameron
nerd.
Mitchell Diehr
Oh, yeah.
Taisha Cameron
I never got into Star Trek.
Mitchell Diehr
I completely recommend it. But the thing is, is that when I'm watching these Star Trek's I'm on my sofa sometimes and I'm crying. Because I'm watching it. I'm like, I want to live in that world. They're all so nice to each other. They believe in science and they talk their feelings and it's just wonderful. And there are a lot of things in this world, actually, that have changed because of Star Trek, because people saw it on Star Trek. And they're like, yeah, that sounds pretty good. Let's, let's try to make it a little bit more like that society, there have been actual things, actual social change because of that. So all to go back to your question of like, do I think that there's something that you can do? Yes, I think theatre, at the very least, can be a break from the world for people. And a moment of just like pure entertainment. And that alone, I think people need in their lives, just a moment of just being like, I'm going to escape reality for a minute, and I'm going to enter this other world. And I think in the best cases, that either inspires them, because they see something on a stage or film, whatever. And they say, Oh, I want to aspire to that. Or they see something and they say, I never knew that it was that bad, that that's what it's really like,
Taisha Cameron
right.
Mitchell Diehr
And I don't want that anymore. And then that becomes something important to them, whether they necessarily go out and like do something active or not, you can tell that they've walked out of there changed a little bit. And that's what I hope for.
Taisha Cameron
Self growth through parenting. Question. Speaking of change, how does being a parent change you as a person?
Mitchell Diehr
This touches on that idea that having a child and I don't think anybody should do it for this reason, but that having a child is in so many ways, a perfect opportunity for self growth. Because, again, like you said, like your daughter exhibits that trait, or my son exhibits some trait that I do, and I look at it, and I'm like, Oh, I need to step up.
Taisha Cameron
Right.
Mitchell Diehr
Because they're seeing that in me and I need to be a better role model for them. So I'm the one that actually has to grow in this situation. Yeah. And that's also a hard thing. You know, because
Taisha Cameron
what do you mean, it's me and not them?
Mitchell Diehr
Yeah, you should just act better not.
Taisha Cameron
Right. I've been doing this living thing for a lot longer than you so I clearly know exactly what to do
Mitchell Diehr
turns out. No, that's not that's not.
Taisha Cameron
Not at all Oh,you're teaching me. I might have been doing some things very wrong for like, decades now. Since I see it, I have the choice. Do I just continue? Or do I say, Hmm, maybe now, even though I'm shmorty? You know, like, yeah, even though I just turned 40. I know I did. But like, yeah, I can change this behavior, or I at least have been faced with. There's a choice here. And you can see it plain as day. So what are you going to choose?
Mitchell Diehr
Yeah, yeah, just being presented with that choice alone. It's like, Oh, well, I've got a decision to make.
Taisha Cameron
Yeah. Yeah.
Mitchell Diehr
It's like a lot of things in life. It's not like you just come up against it. And it's like, oh, well, I'm going to be perfect now. No you're gonna still struggle with it.
Taisha Cameron
Yeah,
Mitchell Diehr
that's, that's again, that's that idea of growth. Like, I have to start stretching myself in that particular way. And I need to do it for my child. Because I want them to see one two that people can grow. Like, people can say, Oh, this is not the best trait of mine. I'm going to do what I can to be better about that. I mean, that alone, I think is a wonderful lesson for a child to learn is like to look at their parent and go like, oh, they're not done growing. Yeah, they can keep growing. I can keep growing
Taisha Cameron
I can keep growing Exactly. The other side of the mirror. Question, what are those traits we pass on to our kids we wish we hadn't? And how do we find peace with that?
Mitchell Diehr
Yeah, that is a painful question. Because I mean, that is one of the things that kids
Taisha Cameron
You're welcome.
Mitchell Diehr
Yeah. Thanks, Tai. Again, it's that mirroring aspect, isn't it? It's like your child is like I learned it from watching you dad. Like Oh, you did, didn't you? Oh, that's not good. How am I gonna deal with that? Honestly, for me, my one great personal failing that I, I berate myself internally for and I tried to also, like, be gentle with myself, but quite often I'm like, yeah, and this is a trait that my son has picked up on and embodied as well, then I'm like, Oh, that's not the best thing for him in the world is, well, there's two. One is the tenderheartedness. My heart has just like, and again, through acting training, I've tried like, I can remember, with Alexander Technique, even working on this idea of this process of expanding my heart. Like, you know, opening up my chest.
Taisha Cameron
Yeah, Yes,
Mitchell Diehr
Idea of working with this physical image of cracking open my chest, even like pulling my rib cage apart, and exposing my heart because I have felt when I've been on stage, and I've just been as raw as possible. I think Sally fields is talked about this, too, that being an actor, sometimes you go out there, and you're just you are without any protection whatsoever. And I find sometimes you go out there and you do a performance, and you're like, oh, that was brilliant. But then you walk backstage, and you're just like, oh my god, I am so tender. And that tenderheartedness my son's picked up on it. And part of me is happy about that. Part of me is like, Oh, he's gonna get hurt. He's gonna go out in the world and his heart is gonna get broken. I think about like, the first time that I fell in love, and then the girl broke up with me and i'm like oh, my God, he's gonna go through that at least several times. Geez. It's, but it's a double edged sword. Because in another aspect, like, I wouldn't want them any other way. I want him to be tender hearted and open to the world. The other one, which has nothing to do with acting, but in my ways, I feel like a personal failing is I can be lazy from from time to time. It's like, Oh, I could do that. Or I could sit here. And I see and unfortunately, like, my son is picked that up quite often to where I'm like, Okay, let's go do a thing he's like, or we could sit here. And I'm like, No, no,
Taisha Cameron
we need to leave this house right now.
Mitchell Diehr
We need to leave this house. We need to go out we need to go on a hike or do something productive.
Taisha Cameron
Yeah.
Mitchell Diehr
Because it you know, it's easy to watch Netflix all day for me. Because I do I mean, again, being an actor, I get so sucked up in stories, right. You know, when a lot of people are talking about bingeing on on Netflix, like I will watch three seasons of something. And before I'm like, oh, I've been inside all day oh it's dark outside. That's too bad.
Taisha Cameron
We'll try again tomorrow.
Mitchell Diehr
We'll try again tomorrow. Yeah, yeah. I at least made dinner? Yeah. Okay. All right.
Taisha Cameron
The choice of fatherhood. Question. When did you know you wanted to be a dad?
Mitchell Diehr
The memory that comes to mind for me, my grandfather had just something like 100 acres out in the Missouri, a farm, a working farm. But on that property, there was a lake that we could go fishing at and this is how I would spend summers quite often. And I had been down to the lake with my dad, and we'd gone fishing. And we were walking back towards the house. And I can just remember thinking like, I want to do this, like what he just did. I want to be a dad, with my son, you know, through the woods with a fishing pole or whatever. I was probably seven or eight at that time. And just had that image of like having my own kid or having him on my shoulders and walking and just thinking like, yeah, that's that sounds good. That sounds like something I want to do. And you know, there were different times in my life where I I wanted that more or that was more of a focus. Obviously, as I got older, it became more of a focus.
Taisha Cameron
I and this is gonna, I feel like be so come off like so sexist and stuff. But I like talking and getting a male perspective on that because I feel like for women, there tends to be a you know, this is something that's going to happen in your life or like you should want to happen in your life. And there probably lots of women out there who like know, at a young age, I don't want that. I don't want it. That is not for me. And some may change your mind later. But um, you know, for guys, I think there are just a lot of guys out there who want to be dads and like they have that thing in them. And they, they recognize it early. And it's not just a this is, you know, this is what is expected of me at some point in life. No, this is what I want to do whether if it was expected or not.
Mitchell Diehr
Yeah, that it was something actively that you wanted to participate in.
Taisha Cameron
Yeah.
Mitchell Diehr
I mean, it's interesting. My own son has said, at this point a couple of times, like, I want to have kids. And I'm like, it's really I try so hard to be like a good parent in the respect that, you know, he says that I'm like, you know what, whether you do or you don't, if you want them or you don't That's fine. I found a lot of, you know, wonderful things about being a parent. And I hope that if that is something you want to do that you get to be able to do. But also trying to give that back door of like, I'm not trying to push him to have kids. It's like, if you want to great if you don't, that's fine, too, you know, sort of thing.
Taisha Cameron
Yeah. I want to be a grandpa one day.
Mitchell Diehr
I've said that to I've said, I'd be a pretty rad Grandpa, I think I'd be pretty good at that. Not that I'm in any hurry.
Taisha Cameron
No, no. So Cooper is
Mitchell Diehr
13 at the end of the month. Yeah,
Taisha Cameron
that's insane. Because I know him from like, being as old as Angelica is right now.
Mitchell Diehr
Yeah, when you first met him, he was just a little bit over a one year old.
Taisha Cameron
Yeah. And it's so wild. And we talked about this before that, like, I have no idea how you got through grad school with a toddler, because I, you know, just getting to bathtime some days, and it's just like me and her at home, I'm like, Good God, when will this day end how you know, like, I don't have you know, rehearsals and all these other things thrown at me and when you think you're stretched to what you believe might be your limit there's this human that's like, nope. I still need more.
Mitchell Diehr
Yeah, well, that's almost the crux of it, right there isn't it is that we can be at the end of our rope. And yet, you know, if your kids like, I'm hungry, or they've thrown up, and it's, 3 am, you got to get up. You got to take care of that. And you realize, you know, you might not be happy about it, you might not be doing it very quickly or efficiently. You realize the resources that you have within yourself, because you get up and you get it done, and you do it. And then you turn around. It's the sort of thing that if, if you look at it as the long road ahead, it does, it seems so daunting. But when it's just I'm just taking care of what's in front of me right now. Which is to tell you the truth. One of the things that I really tried to do as a parent is you just be in that moment, since that's part of what this is about is also being an actor, you try to stay in that moment, and react to what's going on right now. I mean, you can have in the back of your head like oh, there's that big scene coming up and and you know, an act three that I wouldn't have to prepare for. But if you're thinking about that you miss what's going on in this moment. And you need to be there in that moment. for it to work, right. That's the same thing with parenting in a lot of ways.
Taisha Cameron
Lessons from the theater. Question. What lessons from the theater have you learned to help raise your kids?
Mitchell Diehr
different things at different times to and what I think I mean more by that is like different age ranges. When he was very young, this is one of those Stanislavski things, of spheres of influence that, you know, you have that ring of like I'm within my center of attention is within a certain diameter right now. And then you have the center of attention that's a little bit larger beyond that. And then you have the center of attention that's a little bit larger beyond that. I actually can remember like being in a situation thinking about that, because, especially when they're like toddler age, they demand attention. You know, children do in a certain way. And you have to be focused on them because if you're not they know it, and they're upset like Mom, Mom, mom, dad, dad?
Taisha Cameron
Yeah, they are the most honest audience you will, your entire life.
Mitchell Diehr
They know like, you are not giving me your actual attention. You could be looking at them, but they know you're not giving me the actual attention.
Taisha Cameron
Yes.
Mitchell Diehr
And so they'll keep going with that until you were like, okay, yes, I am focused on you. But then being a parent once again, you also have to be aware of like, Okay, is there anybody around within the periphery? That is still a safe situation,
Taisha Cameron
right?
Mitchell Diehr
depending on where you are and what's going on in that moment? Like, can I be doing this right now. And so you have to have those different centers of attention. And I can just remember, and it might have been because I was in graduate school. But I can remember being like, Huh, this is just like that, and acting. Okay, that's interesting.
Taisha Cameron
I love that I am. I had that moment when she was having an emotional meltdown about something. I was like, huh? When I was in class, and someone was having a big like emotion, like we're going through a scene or doing a monologue, and someone's going through a big emotional moment, I just held space for them. Why do I have to get baited into responding to her right now, when I can just hold space for her and let her like, let everything out? Because she's working through something? And if I could do it in a studio with other people, like I could do it right here with my daughter?
Mitchell Diehr
Well, and that's also, from my understanding, also just a psychological technique as well. It's just just holding that space for some
Taisha Cameron
Yeah.
Mitchell Diehr
And that giving so much safety for that other person to be able to say, yes, you can have that emotional outburst and I will hold that space for you.
Taisha Cameron
Yeah,
Mitchell Diehr
just what that feels like on the other side to trust that that other person will just hold the space for you to be able to have that emotional response, I think is a huge thing. Well, just to feel their feelings like that it's a safe space, like it is okay for you to feel your feelings. And you can try to help them as a parent put that in context. You know, which is different, obviously, from the acting side of thing is like, okay, you just had a really big feeling right there. Let's because especially for younger kids, sometimes you might have to name it for them. Like, I think this is what was going on for you. Do you think that that was the same thing? Like I did you get really frustrated there? You know, and you kind of help them put that framework of like, this is what I think you just went through, does that seem to feel right for you? Because I would do that with my son, like, you seem to have gotten really frustrated there where you were you frustrated and like, and this is after they've had that meltdown, and I've held that space for them? Like Yeah, well, what was it? Don't even know, like, what were you frustrated about? And I don't even know what it was. I wanted Cheerios. You want some Cheerios? Yeah, I want Cheerios. Okay, let's get you some Cheerios bud.
Taisha Cameron
For the love of God, I have no idea where this came from. I really, like you need to name something or like put up put a noun to it baby or just describe it in some way. So I know cuz this just seemed like it came out of left field. And it's fine. But I just want to know if it's the Cheerios Just tell me.
Mitchell Diehr
And sometimes it is like we know that is like they're reaching for the toy in the department store and like, No, we've got to leave right now. Sometimes you do know, but sometimes you don't. Sometimes it's just I I'm, I'm trying to work with you here, buddy. But I don't even know what we're doing right now. The actor's nightmare. Oh, we're doing Shakespeare now. I did not prepare for the dramatic scene that we are in at this moment.
Taisha Cameron
Catching the theater bug. Question. When did the spark to become an actor ignite in you?
Mitchell Diehr
My parents are both art teachers. My dad was a professor of fine art. So like painting, pottery, that sort of thing at the local college. And quite often, he would bring me with him to work.
Taisha Cameron
Yeah.
Mitchell Diehr
And he would oftentimes be doing things on the weekend that he wasn't like necessarily teaching a class but he had to prep something or do something so he bring me with him. And I would be just wandering around this building as a little kid, and it was an art building, and theater building combined. So one half, one side of the building big, you know, college campus building was mostly art stuff. And then the other half on the other side was the theater. And I would just wander through because, you know, an art building, there's all sorts of like student projects and things and you know, wandering through, and I'm looking at it, because my dad was basically said, you know, as long as you don't leave the building, fine, just wander around.
Taisha Cameron
Yeah.
Mitchell Diehr
And there was one particular day that I wandered into the theater, which I'd done so a couple of times before, which, you know, a theater, when nothing's going on is such a mysterious cavernous place, you know, it's dark, the ghost lights on the stage. And to a little kid, just walking into a space like that just felt kind of like entering a cathedral. In a way, it was just this almost Mystical Space. And I was a little afraid of it, too.
Taisha Cameron
How old were you at this time?
Mitchell Diehr
Oh, like five or six, like fairly young. But I entered into the space one time and I'm just kind of quietly exploring it. And again, there's a ghost light on stage. But there's also like a rudimentary set that they had started to build or possibly it was just like, a couple of doors for a class, you know how they'll just have a doorway on stage.
Taisha Cameron
Yeah.
Mitchell Diehr
And I kind of wandered out there. And when I'm onstage, a group of college kids come in. Again, it wasn't a class. It was just like theater kids do. It's like, hey, let's go hang out in the theater. Yeah. And they all came on stage. And they're like, oh, who are you? I'm like, Well, I'm Dr. Diehr's son, blah, blah, blah. And they're like, okay, so you have a reason to be here. And there were several props on stage. And we started playing, that
Taisha Cameron
you and all these college kids?
Mitchell Diehr
yeah, all these college kids. I think they just thought, Oh, this is really cute, there's this kid. And they started improving with me, because there were a couple of props, and a couple of doorways. And we just started doing stuff. Like they put a hat in a trench coat on me at one point. I'm like, I'm Mr. Blah, blah, blah, here to sell you snacks. And they just went with it. And I did that for what seemed like no time at all, but I'm sure it was at least an hour or two, long enough that my dad was like, Where is my child, and came looking for me, because he's wandering through the building. And he finally comes into the theater. And he finds me there with these group of college kids. And again, I'm like five or six. So these are big people. In my mind, you know, college kids seemed like really mature older people at that point. And he was like, Okay, well, I'm glad you had fun. Like, it's time to go now. And I can remember just leaving that experience and being like, Oh, I didn't know that adults could play, which is what they had done with me. And I was just like, that's what I want to do. All the time is what I'm doing with those people.
Taisha Cameron
Yeah.
Mitchell Diehr
Is playing and doing that sort of thing. And from that moment on, I like, Oh, that's called a theater. That's what I want to do. Yeah, that's my thing. What do I need to learn? Okay, there's all this history behind it. Great. All right, start teaching me. Yeah. So I was pretty young, really. But that was the formative experience that I remember, in my mind, very clear moment where I was just like, yeah, that's, that's my thing now, that's it. So I was the theater kid. You know, like a lot of people who were in theater, like at some point
Taisha Cameron
when I was not the theater kid.
Mitchell Diehr
And that's okay.
Taisha Cameron
Thank you.
Mitchell Diehr
We still accept you.
Taisha Cameron
I appreciate it.
Mitchell Diehr
But, yeah, it really was like, every school play, I was auditioning. Like, I can remember when I was in, like a freshman in high school. They had one of those talent day things. And I was the emcee for the entire talent day thing. And but I wasn't just myself, I was emceeing as George Bush Senior. So I'm on stage. I'm like, 1000 points a light. That's what we're doing today. All right. And, again, that's I was that weird kid who was just like, Yeah, all right, let's do it. And I had no fear. Just like go on stage. Pretend to be George Bush Senior
Taisha Cameron
that should fearless, that should be your name. That's how I remember you from school like you were just like you would step up to any challenge. When everyone else would be like hesitant, you'd be like, well, if no one else is volunteering, and like, I got this, I'll go.
Mitchell Diehr
I love it. I love putting myself out there. Because even if you fail at something, you're gonna learn something from it. That's the thing that I always enjoyed. And, and the great thing about acting, in my opinion, is that you can just say, like, well, that's that that was my idea. And you can be anybody. Because if everyone agrees, like, Okay, he's an 80 year old grandma right now, with theater. It's like, Okay, I'm gonna go out and do the best 80 year old grandma that I can do.
Taisha Cameron
Yeah.
Mitchell Diehr
Oh, he he's an anthropomorphic turtle, like we've done in some class. In animal. Okay, great. I'm a turtle now. Oh, he's a turtle? And the audience kind of gets? Yes. Yeah, of course. He's a turtle. He's a pretty good turtle, right? It's like, all right, that's where we're going. I mean, obviously, you have to get the audience to buy into that. And, you know, it's interesting. That's one of the differences between theater quite a bit and like filmmaking, I feel, and there is some pushback into theater in this respect, that, like casting people in certain roles. And I do see the wisdom behind this, especially from like, gender equality, and racial equality standards and everything like that. Like, I can't remember what theater it was. But there was someone that recently they cast a white man in the role of Dr. Martin Luther King. That's not necessary. There are plenty of people of color that could have filled that role.
Taisha Cameron
Right.
Mitchell Diehr
And they weren't doing any sort of racial reversal in the play. So it wasn't like, all the people who were usually Caucasian, were played by black people on that play, and vice versa, or anything to try and draw out some sort of meaning or anything, it was just they just happened to cast a white person, that I don't necessarily agree with. But again, if you get the audience's buy in and like, this is what we're doing right now. Like, all the typically female roles are now being played by men. And all of the male roles are being played by female and there's some sort of reason behind it in the play, as long as the audience is like, Yes, okay, we're, we're in on that ride.
Taisha Cameron
Yeah.
Mitchell Diehr
Then that's the beauty of it is you can be anybody, you can be anything when you're on stage.
Taisha Cameron
Balancing the song and dance of parenting. Question, what kind of parent are you? And how do you find a balance to honor yourself and who this individual person you're raising is?
Mitchell Diehr
What I mean, that's a hard question, in some ways, because you're asking me to be very objective about my own self, which I think some of us have,
Taisha Cameron
that's why they pay me the big bucks here.
Mitchell Diehr
And all I'm saying with that is that I actually do try to self reflect quite a bit on my own self. If we fall into any particular pattern, sometimes, that can be doing ourselves a disservice. Whether it's a pattern of thought, speech, even movement, you know, in that respect, I was somewhat of an entertainer, with Cooper, because I am one. But I've also always tried very hard not to be what's called like a, I think, quite often a helicopter parent, letting him have his space, letting him explore those things that he wanted to explore, and trying very hard to pull myself back to allow him that. Again, we spoke earlier, but one of the things that I've had to deal with is finding out the fact that my son is actually more of an introvert than I am. So him being more of an introvert, I had to learn how to let him be an introvert. Because I'm an extrovert. And so we would go to a playground as an example. And I'd be like, go talk to that kid. And, and he'd be like, No, and I had to learn how to be okay with that, like, that's okay. If he doesn't want to play games with every other kid in the playground. I'd still encourage him and at some point, you know, some kid would come over and be like, hey, you want to play tag? Like, some kid would come over and he would be the shy one he would like, kind of hide behind the leg. And they'd be like, What's your name? I'm like, do you want to tell him your name? And after I gave that prompt, he'd be like, Cooper and like, okay. It's like his name. And usually the kid, the other kid would say, like, What was his name? Because he couldn't hear his names this do you two want to be friends. And by the time that other kid was like, Yeah, my son was like, Okay, I'm on board. But he was always the one that was pulling back a little bit. Whereas like, I was the other kid, you should like when I was a kid, like, right? Hey, what's your name, you want to play this, let's go over here and do that other thing, you know, and just learning to let him be himself, my own son, and not look on that in any way, as a failing. Like, he's just a different person. He just reacts differently to those sorts of things. And that's okay. There are millions of introverts in the world, and quite a few of them are doing just fine.
Taisha Cameron
Yeah, we, we need a balance of all because if we were all all extroverts, that would just be insanity all the time, right?
Mitchell Diehr
the intorverts would watch us.
Taisha Cameron
It would be exhausting. Or maybe not? I don't know. I don't know. But um,
Mitchell Diehr
well, it's like, whenever a bunch of theater people get together for a party we all perform.
Taisha Cameron
Oh My god,
Mitchell Diehr
it's a lot of fun, but it can be exhausting.
Taisha Cameron
Yeah
Mitchell Diehr
Yeah Working in like the the artist and the theater aspect of it, like the acting aspect. It's that balance of parenting on one side of teaching the child like, this is the framework, you know, that we have to work within.
Taisha Cameron
Yes.
Mitchell Diehr
Like, this is the world that we've built, and that you have to kind of maintain the rules of, and at the same time, allowing for the fact and being open to what the child brings to the table, like we were talking about, sometimes you're in a scene with an acting partner and either you have no idea what they're going to be bringing to the table, because you know them a little bit as an actor, and they're just completely unpredictable.
Taisha Cameron
Yeah.
Mitchell Diehr
Or maybe they are predictable, but they throw something out there that you weren't expecting, you have to be in that moment and react to it and allow it to happen. Like you can't stop and say, No, no, I think you should do it this way, all the time. You know, because that's not your job is to tell them how they should be in the moment for them. You can, you can be like this is our framework, this is what we're living within. But then they get to play within that as long as they stay within that.
Taisha Cameron
This magic moment. A short story before you go about a magical moment with your child.
Mitchell Diehr
There were a couple memories that came but then there was one that was like, Oh, that's that's a good one. Because it happened while I was in graduate school with you. And we were getting our MFA Living in New York at that time. And I was in Brooklyn, brand new baby. He was maybe about two years old at this point, my son. Had a full day of class all day long, I think probably had gone to rehearsal that evening. Because like you do, you got classes all day, and then there's rehearsals in the evening, and then got on the subway and went out to Brooklyn. And my wife at the time with the son was just done. You know, because she'd been with him all day, busy toddler. And he was going I think he was teething. So he woke up at 3am and just was inconsolable. You know, no matter how much you're bouncing them, or giving something to hold on to, and we were living in a studio apartment so it's one room, that's all there is. And my ex wife basically just looked at me, I was just like, I'm done. I'm just done. Like, I could hear the whimper and her voice and I said okay, so I put on the BabyBjorn stuck my child right on my chest and this is it was fall, so it was cool outside but it wasn't freezing yet. But I wrapped the coat around him and I go outside. And I just start walking because that was the only thing that was kind of soothing. It was walking. And I start walking and I'm walking down this street and walking down that street and go over this block and go over that block. And as long as I keep moving he's okay but he's awake, he's kind of like chittering at me. And I get to the Brooklyn Bridge. And I walk all the way across the Brooklyn Bridge. And I'm just, but at the same time, I'm holding my son to my chest we're warm in this coat. And I'm looking out at the Statue of Liberty in this pre dawn light, and he's at least soothed enough for the moment. And I go all the way to one side, that turned around, walk all the way back. And it by the time I get back to our apartment area, it's maybe seven in the morning. So I go to the bagel place. I get two bagels, and two coffees, walk back to the apartment. And I like open up the door. My wife still, like fast asleep. I'm like, I'm sorry. But I kind of go to class and I hand my son to her and the bagel and a coffee. And I turn around and I walked right back out the door to go get on the subway car to go back to class all day. Obviously super hard, but at the same time, I will remember that and cherish that moment, till the day I die. Just that feeling of being enclosed in my own little world. It's my son on my chest and being able to help the people out in my life in that moment. Just that's that's my precious memory right there.
Taisha Cameron
That's beautiful.
Mitchell Diehr
Thank you.
Taisha Cameron
The Raise a Glass series is a space for reflection and gratitude centered around the topic of the day and inspired by lyrics from Hamilton the musical. They think me Macbeth, ambition is my folly. I'm a polymath, a pain in the ass, massive pain. Madison is Banquo, Jefferson's Macduff and Birnam Wood is Congress on its way to Dunsinane. I selected this quote primarily because our guest today has played Macbeth. So I thought it fitting from that regard. And honestly, how many other chances would I get to throw this into this segment. But when you unpack it, you see Hamilton confiding in Angelica, his experience of feeling attacked for going after what he wants. Similar to the final act in Macbeth. Hamilton feels everyone is after him. He doesn't have time for his family. He can't take a break. He can't do anything but fight. What is he fighting for? When we get caught in the loop of fighting in our lives, whether it's fighting with ourselves, our children, our co workers or employees, our family members, what are we really fighting about? What is important in our lives and worth fighting for? Making the choice to become a parent, to accept the responsibility of guiding another human soul on their journey through life invites all these experiences that will push you to grow and cause you to self reflect. Part of that self reflection is to look inside and see what truly is important to you. What do you live for? What is worth fighting for? We start questioning how much of our fight is from ego. I mean, honestly, when your kid doesn't listen, and you start railing at them that comes more from a place of your ego, feeling ignored, rejected, or feeling that it's been disrespected, and needs to make some sign of force to show you will not be treated in that manner. Once we get to the point of screaming or yelling at our kids or other people, rarely does it have to do with them. Reflecting on how we escalate situations, how our expectations set us up for disappointment, how we've been abused or wronged in our life and now as adults, we can choose to make adjustments to how we treat other people, is the work of being an artist, parent, human of this world. That's the work, reflecting and growing.
That's all for today Guys and Dolls. I hope you enjoyed my conversation with Michel this week. It was such a pleasure speaking with him and I've got many more conversations with other artists to come. Looking to spread a beautiful act of kindness? Leaving a review this month doesn't just put a smile on my face or help other people learn about the podcast. For the month of April, all your reviews will benefit the organization Meals on Wheels, Podchaser, a database for podcast listeners and creators, launched hashtag reviews for good last year at the height of the pandemic to help support the senior population who has been drastically affected by COVID. And to build a stronger community for podcasters and their listeners. Here's what you do. Follow the link to Podchaser.com forward slash MFA parenting edition in the show notes to leave a review. Doesn't matter what app you listen to the podcasts on. For every review, Podchaser donates 25 cents to Meals on Wheels. Now if I reply to your glorious review, they will donate an additional 25 cents for that reply. The hosting app I use buzzsprout is matching all donations from podcasts hosted on their platform. So you write a review and I reply together, we've raised a dollar for meals on wheels. Let's see how many reviews we can get this month. What I'll do is put my money where my mouth is, and I'll donate $1 of my own money for every review to the podcast this month up to $50, I gotta cap it somewhere, guys all right, I really do. I know you're just gonna flood in the love and there's gonna be like 900 reviews there. And I appreciate that. And I love that and that is so helpful and glorious. And that is a wonderful act of kindness, but I ain't got that kind of money to match. Now every week on Instagram, I'll give an update with how many reviews slash money this podcast helped raise and at the end of the month, I'll give you the grand total. Go to Podchaser.com forward slash MFA parenting edition in the show notes to leave a supportive, constructive review full of your happy thoughts. One or two word reviews or emoji reviews don't count 20 characters minimum. So make it meaningful.
I appreciate you for taking time to listen today and want to say thank you for showing up to learn with me different ways we can build the best relationship possible with ourselves and our kids. The world needs you. Go forth and kicketh some ass but not literally please. That's called assault. Don't do that. That goes against everything that we are talking about here.
Again, thank you and I'll see you on the other side.
This week's Artistic Parenting conversation is with actor and father, and friend from grad school days at The New School for Drama, Mitchell Diehr. We talk family values, the lessons he's learned from the theatre that guide him in raising his son, the importance of self-reflection and self-growth. We'll also get a magical moment with his son that is forever imprinted on his heart.
Today's Raise a Glass lyrics are:
They think me Macbeth, ambition is my folly,
I'm a polymath, a pain in the ass, massive pain
Madison is Banquo
Jefferson's MacDuff
And Birnam Wood is Congress on it's way to Dunsinane.
Podchaser #Reviews4Good kicks off this April and MFA wants to join the support of Meals on Wheels. Leave a review to raise money. It's that simple.
Rate the show: https://www.podchaser.com/podcasts/mfa-the-parenting-edition-1370329
Follow on Instagram: @mfaparentingedition
Full Transcript:
Mitchell Diehr
That tenderheartedness my son's picked up on it and part of me is happy about that. Part of me is like, Oh, he's gonna get hurt. He's gonna go out in the world and his heart is gonna get broken.
Taisha Cameron
Welcome to MFA, the parenting edition. I'm Taisha Cameron. These lessons from the theater for raising ourselves and our kids came about when I realized my MFA in acting trained me for life as a mommy better than life as a full time actor. Today I'll be talking to actor and father Mitchell Diehr about the lessons he's learned in the theater that guide him on his parenting journey. So without further ado, this is MFA Episode 29. I'm the one who has to grow. Hello, Hello, lovely. Today we have another artistic parenting conversation with actor Michel Diehr. The artistic parenting series for anyone joining in for the first time is a collection of chats with artists on the lessons from the theater they've learned to help raise themselves and their kids. Now my goal for this particular series of episodes is to share gifts from other artists to help us see the world the arts, our kids and ourselves with new eyes. Be Our Guest. On the show today, I'll be sharing parts of my conversation with Mitchell Travis Diehr, aka Careless. I'm sorry, what did you call him? Take a quick listen. So okay, I just want to clear up one thing. Um...what do you want me to call you right now? So, when we met the name that everyone was calling you your name that you said was like, call me this name is Careless,
Mitchell Diehr
Yeah,
Taisha Cameron
from School for Scandal. And, and, and we did. And then by the, by the time we were finishing grad school, I feel like Mitchell or Mitch started, like coming into it. And so when I got in touch with you like, and we spoke earlier, and you were just like you said, hey, it's Careless. I was like, wait a minute, what am I calling him on the show. Sir, what would you like to be called?
Mitchell Diehr
I mean, really, the difference for that is? It's kind of like, Are you my friend? Or is this a professional thing? You know, if it's a professional thing that I tend to go by my name, the part of the reason I like that nickname is the camaraderie that I feel with it, in theater. I feel like some people growing up their name to name that just seems to fit them perfectly. I never really felt like my name did that. It's not like I dislike it. It's just never was quite had the same punch. My parents, It's Jim Jane and then my brother's, Justin. So I always felt like I should have been a Jack. So I always felt like my name is stuck out a little bit. Got my nickname. I was like, latched on to it. I'm like, yep, that's what it is.
Taisha Cameron
Well, Careless is a dear friend of mine. And he will forever be called that in my book. He is a tremendously talented actor, a loving father of a teenager, which means he went through our training, our grad school drama training with a toddler, I'm still in awe, or disbelief that that happened. Today, we talk about family values, how parenting leads us down the path of self growth, how theatre can bring about change, and what it can teach us about ourselves in the world, theater lessons that guide him as a parent, and we'll get a magical moment with him and his son. So let's not waste any more time and jump right in Family values and what the theater can teach us. Question. It's a question. I'm asking everyone. So let's get straight to it. What are your family values?
Mitchell Diehr
The family values thing, yes. There were certain things that I think a lot of people do this. When they start to have children or they begin to have children. They they think, what is important to me that I pass on to them. And this actually does, I think, in some way, the values that I wanted to pass on, in some ways, I do feel has been influenced by my life in theater, because one of the things that I explored quite often. At least for myself, being a theatre artist, is putting myself into other people's shoes, and really trying to think, like, What is that like for another person? Now, obviously, we can't exactly know. But in a lot of ways that is the job of a theatre artist is, what would that feel like? And a lot of times, obviously, the only way we can approach it is like, what would that feel like to me, if that's the way I was treated, or that's what I was going through in my life? um, and putting yourself in so many different shoes, and experiencing those different lives, even in miniature, I think opens you up in a certain way, opens up your heart, you know. And so a lot of the values that I have tried to teach my own son has been along that line of think what it's like for other people. And obviously, that branches out in so many other different directions. Like, what is it like for a woman in this world? What is it like for a person of color in this world, and like, I've taken him on BLM marches, and explained to him like this, this is the reality of this world right now. And the reason we're out here, like you're in the cold with me, and we're out walking down a street with all these other people, is because of this, and that's not fair that these people have to live in a world like this. And that's why we are out here is because we're trying to help in any small way that we can, and work for a better world. So a lot of the things that I have tried to do and passed along as a parent is, think about other people. Think about what it's like for them. And obviously, would you want that to happen to you? And if you see that something's wrong, do something about it, do what you can, at the very least create something better?
Taisha Cameron
Do you think that theatre can create something better?
Mitchell Diehr
I think it can help. I think it's the job of an artist quite often to hold a mirror up, and to show people like, Oh, this is what you look like right now. And sometimes,
Taisha Cameron
and it's crazy change.
Mitchell Diehr
Right. And sometimes people are very upset with that. They're like, I do not like this right? Oh, I can't remember the name of the play. Miss Julie, I believe. Right. Where I believe the history of that is there was actually a riot during the first performance of Miss Julie. Because in that play, you have a servant with the lady of the house.
Taisha Cameron
Yeah,
Mitchell Diehr
in a fair, and just how, you know, untoward that is how horrible and, you know, we as a modern person, we see that play, and we're kind of like, Oh, that's interesting. But we wouldn't riot,
Taisha Cameron
right?
Mitchell Diehr
Because a serve an ad a relation with the lady of the house,
Taisha Cameron
right?
Mitchell Diehr
They did at that time, just change obviously can be painfully painfully slow. And there can be steps forward and three steps back, sometimes it feels like to. But as an artist, we hold that mirror up. We put something out there. And sometimes people will see it and they will say oh yeah, we need to change. Or you put an alternate thing out there and you say, Oh, this is what it could look like. And then people say, Oh, yeah, I want the world to look like that. Like a lot of people. I'm stuck in doors right now. And you know, Netflix is the godsend for a lot of people. I've been rewatching all of the Star Trek's because they have all of the Star Trek
Taisha Cameron
nerd.
Mitchell Diehr
Oh, yeah.
Taisha Cameron
I never got into Star Trek.
Mitchell Diehr
I completely recommend it. But the thing is, is that when I'm watching these Star Trek's I'm on my sofa sometimes and I'm crying. Because I'm watching it. I'm like, I want to live in that world. They're all so nice to each other. They believe in science and they talk their feelings and it's just wonderful. And there are a lot of things in this world, actually, that have changed because of Star Trek, because people saw it on Star Trek. And they're like, yeah, that sounds pretty good. Let's, let's try to make it a little bit more like that society, there have been actual things, actual social change because of that. So all to go back to your question of like, do I think that there's something that you can do? Yes, I think theatre, at the very least, can be a break from the world for people. And a moment of just like pure entertainment. And that alone, I think people need in their lives, just a moment of just being like, I'm going to escape reality for a minute, and I'm going to enter this other world. And I think in the best cases, that either inspires them, because they see something on a stage or film, whatever. And they say, Oh, I want to aspire to that. Or they see something and they say, I never knew that it was that bad, that that's what it's really like,
Taisha Cameron
right.
Mitchell Diehr
And I don't want that anymore. And then that becomes something important to them, whether they necessarily go out and like do something active or not, you can tell that they've walked out of there changed a little bit. And that's what I hope for.
Taisha Cameron
Self growth through parenting. Question. Speaking of change, how does being a parent change you as a person?
Mitchell Diehr
This touches on that idea that having a child and I don't think anybody should do it for this reason, but that having a child is in so many ways, a perfect opportunity for self growth. Because, again, like you said, like your daughter exhibits that trait, or my son exhibits some trait that I do, and I look at it, and I'm like, Oh, I need to step up.
Taisha Cameron
Right.
Mitchell Diehr
Because they're seeing that in me and I need to be a better role model for them. So I'm the one that actually has to grow in this situation. Yeah. And that's also a hard thing. You know, because
Taisha Cameron
what do you mean, it's me and not them?
Mitchell Diehr
Yeah, you should just act better not.
Taisha Cameron
Right. I've been doing this living thing for a lot longer than you so I clearly know exactly what to do
Mitchell Diehr
turns out. No, that's not that's not.
Taisha Cameron
Not at all Oh,you're teaching me. I might have been doing some things very wrong for like, decades now. Since I see it, I have the choice. Do I just continue? Or do I say, Hmm, maybe now, even though I'm shmorty? You know, like, yeah, even though I just turned 40. I know I did. But like, yeah, I can change this behavior, or I at least have been faced with. There's a choice here. And you can see it plain as day. So what are you going to choose?
Mitchell Diehr
Yeah, yeah, just being presented with that choice alone. It's like, Oh, well, I've got a decision to make.
Taisha Cameron
Yeah. Yeah.
Mitchell Diehr
It's like a lot of things in life. It's not like you just come up against it. And it's like, oh, well, I'm going to be perfect now. No you're gonna still struggle with it.
Taisha Cameron
Yeah,
Mitchell Diehr
that's, that's again, that's that idea of growth. Like, I have to start stretching myself in that particular way. And I need to do it for my child. Because I want them to see one two that people can grow. Like, people can say, Oh, this is not the best trait of mine. I'm going to do what I can to be better about that. I mean, that alone, I think is a wonderful lesson for a child to learn is like to look at their parent and go like, oh, they're not done growing. Yeah, they can keep growing. I can keep growing
Taisha Cameron
I can keep growing Exactly. The other side of the mirror. Question, what are those traits we pass on to our kids we wish we hadn't? And how do we find peace with that?
Mitchell Diehr
Yeah, that is a painful question. Because I mean, that is one of the things that kids
Taisha Cameron
You're welcome.
Mitchell Diehr
Yeah. Thanks, Tai. Again, it's that mirroring aspect, isn't it? It's like your child is like I learned it from watching you dad. Like Oh, you did, didn't you? Oh, that's not good. How am I gonna deal with that? Honestly, for me, my one great personal failing that I, I berate myself internally for and I tried to also, like, be gentle with myself, but quite often I'm like, yeah, and this is a trait that my son has picked up on and embodied as well, then I'm like, Oh, that's not the best thing for him in the world is, well, there's two. One is the tenderheartedness. My heart has just like, and again, through acting training, I've tried like, I can remember, with Alexander Technique, even working on this idea of this process of expanding my heart. Like, you know, opening up my chest.
Taisha Cameron
Yeah, Yes,
Mitchell Diehr
Idea of working with this physical image of cracking open my chest, even like pulling my rib cage apart, and exposing my heart because I have felt when I've been on stage, and I've just been as raw as possible. I think Sally fields is talked about this, too, that being an actor, sometimes you go out there, and you're just you are without any protection whatsoever. And I find sometimes you go out there and you do a performance, and you're like, oh, that was brilliant. But then you walk backstage, and you're just like, oh my god, I am so tender. And that tenderheartedness my son's picked up on it. And part of me is happy about that. Part of me is like, Oh, he's gonna get hurt. He's gonna go out in the world and his heart is gonna get broken. I think about like, the first time that I fell in love, and then the girl broke up with me and i'm like oh, my God, he's gonna go through that at least several times. Geez. It's, but it's a double edged sword. Because in another aspect, like, I wouldn't want them any other way. I want him to be tender hearted and open to the world. The other one, which has nothing to do with acting, but in my ways, I feel like a personal failing is I can be lazy from from time to time. It's like, Oh, I could do that. Or I could sit here. And I see and unfortunately, like, my son is picked that up quite often to where I'm like, Okay, let's go do a thing he's like, or we could sit here. And I'm like, No, no,
Taisha Cameron
we need to leave this house right now.
Mitchell Diehr
We need to leave this house. We need to go out we need to go on a hike or do something productive.
Taisha Cameron
Yeah.
Mitchell Diehr
Because it you know, it's easy to watch Netflix all day for me. Because I do I mean, again, being an actor, I get so sucked up in stories, right. You know, when a lot of people are talking about bingeing on on Netflix, like I will watch three seasons of something. And before I'm like, oh, I've been inside all day oh it's dark outside. That's too bad.
Taisha Cameron
We'll try again tomorrow.
Mitchell Diehr
We'll try again tomorrow. Yeah, yeah. I at least made dinner? Yeah. Okay. All right.
Taisha Cameron
The choice of fatherhood. Question. When did you know you wanted to be a dad?
Mitchell Diehr
The memory that comes to mind for me, my grandfather had just something like 100 acres out in the Missouri, a farm, a working farm. But on that property, there was a lake that we could go fishing at and this is how I would spend summers quite often. And I had been down to the lake with my dad, and we'd gone fishing. And we were walking back towards the house. And I can just remember thinking like, I want to do this, like what he just did. I want to be a dad, with my son, you know, through the woods with a fishing pole or whatever. I was probably seven or eight at that time. And just had that image of like having my own kid or having him on my shoulders and walking and just thinking like, yeah, that's that sounds good. That sounds like something I want to do. And you know, there were different times in my life where I I wanted that more or that was more of a focus. Obviously, as I got older, it became more of a focus.
Taisha Cameron
I and this is gonna, I feel like be so come off like so sexist and stuff. But I like talking and getting a male perspective on that because I feel like for women, there tends to be a you know, this is something that's going to happen in your life or like you should want to happen in your life. And there probably lots of women out there who like know, at a young age, I don't want that. I don't want it. That is not for me. And some may change your mind later. But um, you know, for guys, I think there are just a lot of guys out there who want to be dads and like they have that thing in them. And they, they recognize it early. And it's not just a this is, you know, this is what is expected of me at some point in life. No, this is what I want to do whether if it was expected or not.
Mitchell Diehr
Yeah, that it was something actively that you wanted to participate in.
Taisha Cameron
Yeah.
Mitchell Diehr
I mean, it's interesting. My own son has said, at this point a couple of times, like, I want to have kids. And I'm like, it's really I try so hard to be like a good parent in the respect that, you know, he says that I'm like, you know what, whether you do or you don't, if you want them or you don't That's fine. I found a lot of, you know, wonderful things about being a parent. And I hope that if that is something you want to do that you get to be able to do. But also trying to give that back door of like, I'm not trying to push him to have kids. It's like, if you want to great if you don't, that's fine, too, you know, sort of thing.
Taisha Cameron
Yeah. I want to be a grandpa one day.
Mitchell Diehr
I've said that to I've said, I'd be a pretty rad Grandpa, I think I'd be pretty good at that. Not that I'm in any hurry.
Taisha Cameron
No, no. So Cooper is
Mitchell Diehr
13 at the end of the month. Yeah,
Taisha Cameron
that's insane. Because I know him from like, being as old as Angelica is right now.
Mitchell Diehr
Yeah, when you first met him, he was just a little bit over a one year old.
Taisha Cameron
Yeah. And it's so wild. And we talked about this before that, like, I have no idea how you got through grad school with a toddler, because I, you know, just getting to bathtime some days, and it's just like me and her at home, I'm like, Good God, when will this day end how you know, like, I don't have you know, rehearsals and all these other things thrown at me and when you think you're stretched to what you believe might be your limit there's this human that's like, nope. I still need more.
Mitchell Diehr
Yeah, well, that's almost the crux of it, right there isn't it is that we can be at the end of our rope. And yet, you know, if your kids like, I'm hungry, or they've thrown up, and it's, 3 am, you got to get up. You got to take care of that. And you realize, you know, you might not be happy about it, you might not be doing it very quickly or efficiently. You realize the resources that you have within yourself, because you get up and you get it done, and you do it. And then you turn around. It's the sort of thing that if, if you look at it as the long road ahead, it does, it seems so daunting. But when it's just I'm just taking care of what's in front of me right now. Which is to tell you the truth. One of the things that I really tried to do as a parent is you just be in that moment, since that's part of what this is about is also being an actor, you try to stay in that moment, and react to what's going on right now. I mean, you can have in the back of your head like oh, there's that big scene coming up and and you know, an act three that I wouldn't have to prepare for. But if you're thinking about that you miss what's going on in this moment. And you need to be there in that moment. for it to work, right. That's the same thing with parenting in a lot of ways.
Taisha Cameron
Lessons from the theater. Question. What lessons from the theater have you learned to help raise your kids?
Mitchell Diehr
different things at different times to and what I think I mean more by that is like different age ranges. When he was very young, this is one of those Stanislavski things, of spheres of influence that, you know, you have that ring of like I'm within my center of attention is within a certain diameter right now. And then you have the center of attention that's a little bit larger beyond that. And then you have the center of attention that's a little bit larger beyond that. I actually can remember like being in a situation thinking about that, because, especially when they're like toddler age, they demand attention. You know, children do in a certain way. And you have to be focused on them because if you're not they know it, and they're upset like Mom, Mom, mom, dad, dad?
Taisha Cameron
Yeah, they are the most honest audience you will, your entire life.
Mitchell Diehr
They know like, you are not giving me your actual attention. You could be looking at them, but they know you're not giving me the actual attention.
Taisha Cameron
Yes.
Mitchell Diehr
And so they'll keep going with that until you were like, okay, yes, I am focused on you. But then being a parent once again, you also have to be aware of like, Okay, is there anybody around within the periphery? That is still a safe situation,
Taisha Cameron
right?
Mitchell Diehr
depending on where you are and what's going on in that moment? Like, can I be doing this right now. And so you have to have those different centers of attention. And I can just remember, and it might have been because I was in graduate school. But I can remember being like, Huh, this is just like that, and acting. Okay, that's interesting.
Taisha Cameron
I love that I am. I had that moment when she was having an emotional meltdown about something. I was like, huh? When I was in class, and someone was having a big like emotion, like we're going through a scene or doing a monologue, and someone's going through a big emotional moment, I just held space for them. Why do I have to get baited into responding to her right now, when I can just hold space for her and let her like, let everything out? Because she's working through something? And if I could do it in a studio with other people, like I could do it right here with my daughter?
Mitchell Diehr
Well, and that's also, from my understanding, also just a psychological technique as well. It's just just holding that space for some
Taisha Cameron
Yeah.
Mitchell Diehr
And that giving so much safety for that other person to be able to say, yes, you can have that emotional outburst and I will hold that space for you.
Taisha Cameron
Yeah,
Mitchell Diehr
just what that feels like on the other side to trust that that other person will just hold the space for you to be able to have that emotional response, I think is a huge thing. Well, just to feel their feelings like that it's a safe space, like it is okay for you to feel your feelings. And you can try to help them as a parent put that in context. You know, which is different, obviously, from the acting side of thing is like, okay, you just had a really big feeling right there. Let's because especially for younger kids, sometimes you might have to name it for them. Like, I think this is what was going on for you. Do you think that that was the same thing? Like I did you get really frustrated there? You know, and you kind of help them put that framework of like, this is what I think you just went through, does that seem to feel right for you? Because I would do that with my son, like, you seem to have gotten really frustrated there where you were you frustrated and like, and this is after they've had that meltdown, and I've held that space for them? Like Yeah, well, what was it? Don't even know, like, what were you frustrated about? And I don't even know what it was. I wanted Cheerios. You want some Cheerios? Yeah, I want Cheerios. Okay, let's get you some Cheerios bud.
Taisha Cameron
For the love of God, I have no idea where this came from. I really, like you need to name something or like put up put a noun to it baby or just describe it in some way. So I know cuz this just seemed like it came out of left field. And it's fine. But I just want to know if it's the Cheerios Just tell me.
Mitchell Diehr
And sometimes it is like we know that is like they're reaching for the toy in the department store and like, No, we've got to leave right now. Sometimes you do know, but sometimes you don't. Sometimes it's just I I'm, I'm trying to work with you here, buddy. But I don't even know what we're doing right now. The actor's nightmare. Oh, we're doing Shakespeare now. I did not prepare for the dramatic scene that we are in at this moment.
Taisha Cameron
Catching the theater bug. Question. When did the spark to become an actor ignite in you?
Mitchell Diehr
My parents are both art teachers. My dad was a professor of fine art. So like painting, pottery, that sort of thing at the local college. And quite often, he would bring me with him to work.
Taisha Cameron
Yeah.
Mitchell Diehr
And he would oftentimes be doing things on the weekend that he wasn't like necessarily teaching a class but he had to prep something or do something so he bring me with him. And I would be just wandering around this building as a little kid, and it was an art building, and theater building combined. So one half, one side of the building big, you know, college campus building was mostly art stuff. And then the other half on the other side was the theater. And I would just wander through because, you know, an art building, there's all sorts of like student projects and things and you know, wandering through, and I'm looking at it, because my dad was basically said, you know, as long as you don't leave the building, fine, just wander around.
Taisha Cameron
Yeah.
Mitchell Diehr
And there was one particular day that I wandered into the theater, which I'd done so a couple of times before, which, you know, a theater, when nothing's going on is such a mysterious cavernous place, you know, it's dark, the ghost lights on the stage. And to a little kid, just walking into a space like that just felt kind of like entering a cathedral. In a way, it was just this almost Mystical Space. And I was a little afraid of it, too.
Taisha Cameron
How old were you at this time?
Mitchell Diehr
Oh, like five or six, like fairly young. But I entered into the space one time and I'm just kind of quietly exploring it. And again, there's a ghost light on stage. But there's also like a rudimentary set that they had started to build or possibly it was just like, a couple of doors for a class, you know how they'll just have a doorway on stage.
Taisha Cameron
Yeah.
Mitchell Diehr
And I kind of wandered out there. And when I'm onstage, a group of college kids come in. Again, it wasn't a class. It was just like theater kids do. It's like, hey, let's go hang out in the theater. Yeah. And they all came on stage. And they're like, oh, who are you? I'm like, Well, I'm Dr. Diehr's son, blah, blah, blah. And they're like, okay, so you have a reason to be here. And there were several props on stage. And we started playing, that
Taisha Cameron
you and all these college kids?
Mitchell Diehr
yeah, all these college kids. I think they just thought, Oh, this is really cute, there's this kid. And they started improving with me, because there were a couple of props, and a couple of doorways. And we just started doing stuff. Like they put a hat in a trench coat on me at one point. I'm like, I'm Mr. Blah, blah, blah, here to sell you snacks. And they just went with it. And I did that for what seemed like no time at all, but I'm sure it was at least an hour or two, long enough that my dad was like, Where is my child, and came looking for me, because he's wandering through the building. And he finally comes into the theater. And he finds me there with these group of college kids. And again, I'm like five or six. So these are big people. In my mind, you know, college kids seemed like really mature older people at that point. And he was like, Okay, well, I'm glad you had fun. Like, it's time to go now. And I can remember just leaving that experience and being like, Oh, I didn't know that adults could play, which is what they had done with me. And I was just like, that's what I want to do. All the time is what I'm doing with those people.
Taisha Cameron
Yeah.
Mitchell Diehr
Is playing and doing that sort of thing. And from that moment on, I like, Oh, that's called a theater. That's what I want to do. Yeah, that's my thing. What do I need to learn? Okay, there's all this history behind it. Great. All right, start teaching me. Yeah. So I was pretty young, really. But that was the formative experience that I remember, in my mind, very clear moment where I was just like, yeah, that's, that's my thing now, that's it. So I was the theater kid. You know, like a lot of people who were in theater, like at some point
Taisha Cameron
when I was not the theater kid.
Mitchell Diehr
And that's okay.
Taisha Cameron
Thank you.
Mitchell Diehr
We still accept you.
Taisha Cameron
I appreciate it.
Mitchell Diehr
But, yeah, it really was like, every school play, I was auditioning. Like, I can remember when I was in, like a freshman in high school. They had one of those talent day things. And I was the emcee for the entire talent day thing. And but I wasn't just myself, I was emceeing as George Bush Senior. So I'm on stage. I'm like, 1000 points a light. That's what we're doing today. All right. And, again, that's I was that weird kid who was just like, Yeah, all right, let's do it. And I had no fear. Just like go on stage. Pretend to be George Bush Senior
Taisha Cameron
that should fearless, that should be your name. That's how I remember you from school like you were just like you would step up to any challenge. When everyone else would be like hesitant, you'd be like, well, if no one else is volunteering, and like, I got this, I'll go.
Mitchell Diehr
I love it. I love putting myself out there. Because even if you fail at something, you're gonna learn something from it. That's the thing that I always enjoyed. And, and the great thing about acting, in my opinion, is that you can just say, like, well, that's that that was my idea. And you can be anybody. Because if everyone agrees, like, Okay, he's an 80 year old grandma right now, with theater. It's like, Okay, I'm gonna go out and do the best 80 year old grandma that I can do.
Taisha Cameron
Yeah.
Mitchell Diehr
Oh, he he's an anthropomorphic turtle, like we've done in some class. In animal. Okay, great. I'm a turtle now. Oh, he's a turtle? And the audience kind of gets? Yes. Yeah, of course. He's a turtle. He's a pretty good turtle, right? It's like, all right, that's where we're going. I mean, obviously, you have to get the audience to buy into that. And, you know, it's interesting. That's one of the differences between theater quite a bit and like filmmaking, I feel, and there is some pushback into theater in this respect, that, like casting people in certain roles. And I do see the wisdom behind this, especially from like, gender equality, and racial equality standards and everything like that. Like, I can't remember what theater it was. But there was someone that recently they cast a white man in the role of Dr. Martin Luther King. That's not necessary. There are plenty of people of color that could have filled that role.
Taisha Cameron
Right.
Mitchell Diehr
And they weren't doing any sort of racial reversal in the play. So it wasn't like, all the people who were usually Caucasian, were played by black people on that play, and vice versa, or anything to try and draw out some sort of meaning or anything, it was just they just happened to cast a white person, that I don't necessarily agree with. But again, if you get the audience's buy in and like, this is what we're doing right now. Like, all the typically female roles are now being played by men. And all of the male roles are being played by female and there's some sort of reason behind it in the play, as long as the audience is like, Yes, okay, we're, we're in on that ride.
Taisha Cameron
Yeah.
Mitchell Diehr
Then that's the beauty of it is you can be anybody, you can be anything when you're on stage.
Taisha Cameron
Balancing the song and dance of parenting. Question, what kind of parent are you? And how do you find a balance to honor yourself and who this individual person you're raising is?
Mitchell Diehr
What I mean, that's a hard question, in some ways, because you're asking me to be very objective about my own self, which I think some of us have,
Taisha Cameron
that's why they pay me the big bucks here.
Mitchell Diehr
And all I'm saying with that is that I actually do try to self reflect quite a bit on my own self. If we fall into any particular pattern, sometimes, that can be doing ourselves a disservice. Whether it's a pattern of thought, speech, even movement, you know, in that respect, I was somewhat of an entertainer, with Cooper, because I am one. But I've also always tried very hard not to be what's called like a, I think, quite often a helicopter parent, letting him have his space, letting him explore those things that he wanted to explore, and trying very hard to pull myself back to allow him that. Again, we spoke earlier, but one of the things that I've had to deal with is finding out the fact that my son is actually more of an introvert than I am. So him being more of an introvert, I had to learn how to let him be an introvert. Because I'm an extrovert. And so we would go to a playground as an example. And I'd be like, go talk to that kid. And, and he'd be like, No, and I had to learn how to be okay with that, like, that's okay. If he doesn't want to play games with every other kid in the playground. I'd still encourage him and at some point, you know, some kid would come over and be like, hey, you want to play tag? Like, some kid would come over and he would be the shy one he would like, kind of hide behind the leg. And they'd be like, What's your name? I'm like, do you want to tell him your name? And after I gave that prompt, he'd be like, Cooper and like, okay. It's like his name. And usually the kid, the other kid would say, like, What was his name? Because he couldn't hear his names this do you two want to be friends. And by the time that other kid was like, Yeah, my son was like, Okay, I'm on board. But he was always the one that was pulling back a little bit. Whereas like, I was the other kid, you should like when I was a kid, like, right? Hey, what's your name, you want to play this, let's go over here and do that other thing, you know, and just learning to let him be himself, my own son, and not look on that in any way, as a failing. Like, he's just a different person. He just reacts differently to those sorts of things. And that's okay. There are millions of introverts in the world, and quite a few of them are doing just fine.
Taisha Cameron
Yeah, we, we need a balance of all because if we were all all extroverts, that would just be insanity all the time, right?
Mitchell Diehr
the intorverts would watch us.
Taisha Cameron
It would be exhausting. Or maybe not? I don't know. I don't know. But um,
Mitchell Diehr
well, it's like, whenever a bunch of theater people get together for a party we all perform.
Taisha Cameron
Oh My god,
Mitchell Diehr
it's a lot of fun, but it can be exhausting.
Taisha Cameron
Yeah
Mitchell Diehr
Yeah Working in like the the artist and the theater aspect of it, like the acting aspect. It's that balance of parenting on one side of teaching the child like, this is the framework, you know, that we have to work within.
Taisha Cameron
Yes.
Mitchell Diehr
Like, this is the world that we've built, and that you have to kind of maintain the rules of, and at the same time, allowing for the fact and being open to what the child brings to the table, like we were talking about, sometimes you're in a scene with an acting partner and either you have no idea what they're going to be bringing to the table, because you know them a little bit as an actor, and they're just completely unpredictable.
Taisha Cameron
Yeah.
Mitchell Diehr
Or maybe they are predictable, but they throw something out there that you weren't expecting, you have to be in that moment and react to it and allow it to happen. Like you can't stop and say, No, no, I think you should do it this way, all the time. You know, because that's not your job is to tell them how they should be in the moment for them. You can, you can be like this is our framework, this is what we're living within. But then they get to play within that as long as they stay within that.
Taisha Cameron
This magic moment. A short story before you go about a magical moment with your child.
Mitchell Diehr
There were a couple memories that came but then there was one that was like, Oh, that's that's a good one. Because it happened while I was in graduate school with you. And we were getting our MFA Living in New York at that time. And I was in Brooklyn, brand new baby. He was maybe about two years old at this point, my son. Had a full day of class all day long, I think probably had gone to rehearsal that evening. Because like you do, you got classes all day, and then there's rehearsals in the evening, and then got on the subway and went out to Brooklyn. And my wife at the time with the son was just done. You know, because she'd been with him all day, busy toddler. And he was going I think he was teething. So he woke up at 3am and just was inconsolable. You know, no matter how much you're bouncing them, or giving something to hold on to, and we were living in a studio apartment so it's one room, that's all there is. And my ex wife basically just looked at me, I was just like, I'm done. I'm just done. Like, I could hear the whimper and her voice and I said okay, so I put on the BabyBjorn stuck my child right on my chest and this is it was fall, so it was cool outside but it wasn't freezing yet. But I wrapped the coat around him and I go outside. And I just start walking because that was the only thing that was kind of soothing. It was walking. And I start walking and I'm walking down this street and walking down that street and go over this block and go over that block. And as long as I keep moving he's okay but he's awake, he's kind of like chittering at me. And I get to the Brooklyn Bridge. And I walk all the way across the Brooklyn Bridge. And I'm just, but at the same time, I'm holding my son to my chest we're warm in this coat. And I'm looking out at the Statue of Liberty in this pre dawn light, and he's at least soothed enough for the moment. And I go all the way to one side, that turned around, walk all the way back. And it by the time I get back to our apartment area, it's maybe seven in the morning. So I go to the bagel place. I get two bagels, and two coffees, walk back to the apartment. And I like open up the door. My wife still, like fast asleep. I'm like, I'm sorry. But I kind of go to class and I hand my son to her and the bagel and a coffee. And I turn around and I walked right back out the door to go get on the subway car to go back to class all day. Obviously super hard, but at the same time, I will remember that and cherish that moment, till the day I die. Just that feeling of being enclosed in my own little world. It's my son on my chest and being able to help the people out in my life in that moment. Just that's that's my precious memory right there.
Taisha Cameron
That's beautiful.
Mitchell Diehr
Thank you.
Taisha Cameron
The Raise a Glass series is a space for reflection and gratitude centered around the topic of the day and inspired by lyrics from Hamilton the musical. They think me Macbeth, ambition is my folly. I'm a polymath, a pain in the ass, massive pain. Madison is Banquo, Jefferson's Macduff and Birnam Wood is Congress on its way to Dunsinane. I selected this quote primarily because our guest today has played Macbeth. So I thought it fitting from that regard. And honestly, how many other chances would I get to throw this into this segment. But when you unpack it, you see Hamilton confiding in Angelica, his experience of feeling attacked for going after what he wants. Similar to the final act in Macbeth. Hamilton feels everyone is after him. He doesn't have time for his family. He can't take a break. He can't do anything but fight. What is he fighting for? When we get caught in the loop of fighting in our lives, whether it's fighting with ourselves, our children, our co workers or employees, our family members, what are we really fighting about? What is important in our lives and worth fighting for? Making the choice to become a parent, to accept the responsibility of guiding another human soul on their journey through life invites all these experiences that will push you to grow and cause you to self reflect. Part of that self reflection is to look inside and see what truly is important to you. What do you live for? What is worth fighting for? We start questioning how much of our fight is from ego. I mean, honestly, when your kid doesn't listen, and you start railing at them that comes more from a place of your ego, feeling ignored, rejected, or feeling that it's been disrespected, and needs to make some sign of force to show you will not be treated in that manner. Once we get to the point of screaming or yelling at our kids or other people, rarely does it have to do with them. Reflecting on how we escalate situations, how our expectations set us up for disappointment, how we've been abused or wronged in our life and now as adults, we can choose to make adjustments to how we treat other people, is the work of being an artist, parent, human of this world. That's the work, reflecting and growing.
That's all for today Guys and Dolls. I hope you enjoyed my conversation with Michel this week. It was such a pleasure speaking with him and I've got many more conversations with other artists to come. Looking to spread a beautiful act of kindness? Leaving a review this month doesn't just put a smile on my face or help other people learn about the podcast. For the month of April, all your reviews will benefit the organization Meals on Wheels, Podchaser, a database for podcast listeners and creators, launched hashtag reviews for good last year at the height of the pandemic to help support the senior population who has been drastically affected by COVID. And to build a stronger community for podcasters and their listeners. Here's what you do. Follow the link to Podchaser.com forward slash MFA parenting edition in the show notes to leave a review. Doesn't matter what app you listen to the podcasts on. For every review, Podchaser donates 25 cents to Meals on Wheels. Now if I reply to your glorious review, they will donate an additional 25 cents for that reply. The hosting app I use buzzsprout is matching all donations from podcasts hosted on their platform. So you write a review and I reply together, we've raised a dollar for meals on wheels. Let's see how many reviews we can get this month. What I'll do is put my money where my mouth is, and I'll donate $1 of my own money for every review to the podcast this month up to $50, I gotta cap it somewhere, guys all right, I really do. I know you're just gonna flood in the love and there's gonna be like 900 reviews there. And I appreciate that. And I love that and that is so helpful and glorious. And that is a wonderful act of kindness, but I ain't got that kind of money to match. Now every week on Instagram, I'll give an update with how many reviews slash money this podcast helped raise and at the end of the month, I'll give you the grand total. Go to Podchaser.com forward slash MFA parenting edition in the show notes to leave a supportive, constructive review full of your happy thoughts. One or two word reviews or emoji reviews don't count 20 characters minimum. So make it meaningful.
I appreciate you for taking time to listen today and want to say thank you for showing up to learn with me different ways we can build the best relationship possible with ourselves and our kids. The world needs you. Go forth and kicketh some ass but not literally please. That's called assault. Don't do that. That goes against everything that we are talking about here.
Again, thank you and I'll see you on the other side.